VF Wagon sway bars

[losh1971]

Well that was a waste of time. Seems Walkinshaw suspension is a tightly held secret as nothing came up with anything that describes what type of spring they are. Not even reviews I could find.

 

[RevNev]

I don't typically carry loads more than a few times a year. Not a fan of Kings but I have heard that Kings make Walkinshaw anyway. I might give the rear 18mm a go with stock SS 23mm front.

I have some concerns after reading an article posted by Immortality, which suggested a front upgrade may be needed if going thicker on the rear, in this case an Omega 18mm. My suspension has been all rebuilt so not keen on spending more on it. I have KYB on the front and Sachs on the rear. The Sachs feel a bit like a comfort shock rather than a HD sports shock but that's only my assessment.

The best sway bar size is dependent on spring and shock rates of a particular combo, so the stiffer the springs and shocks are, the softer the sway bars need to be. Front to rear size balances the car from understeer/oversteer situations. The stiffer the front springs and shocks, the stiffer the rear sway bar can be to reduce understeer.

The 24mm front sway bar and 16mm rear that works well on a Ute with the King/Monroe combo, may not be ideal with your spring/shock combo.

What we do know in a joint venture, King Springs and Monroe have done the most VE/VF development than anyone else aside from Oscar Fiorinotto (Supashock) on the W1 for a road car performance combination.

 

[RevNev]

Well that was a waste of time. Seems Walkinshaw suspension is a tightly held secret as nothing came up with anything that describes what type of spring they are. Not even reviews I could find.

I had a feeling the Walkinshaw springs are Eibach's. I'm sure I read something about Eibach providing Walkinshaw exclusively with a rear wagon spring and they only sold sedan/ute kits to the general public. I think it boiled down to buying a Walkinshaw kit at 3 times the price if you wanted Eibach's in a wagon, something like that!

 

[losh1971]

The best sway bar size is dependent on spring and shock rates of a particular combo, so the stiffer the springs and shocks are, the softer the sway bars need to be. Front to rear size balances the car from understeer/oversteer situations. The stiffer the front springs and shocks, the stiffer the rear sway bar can be to reduce understeer.

The 24mm front sway bar and 16mm rear that works well on a Ute with the King/Monroe combo, may not be ideal with your spring/shock combo.

What we do know in a joint venture, King Springs and Monroe have done the most VE/VF development than anyone else aside from Oscar Fiorinotto (Supashock) on the W1 for a road car performance combination.

Hmmm, I wouldn't mind finding a place that can tell me, honestly if I have what I suspect and fairly soft/comfort coils. Only place I can think of that still exists locally is Pedders. My concern is they may feed me some BS and say "yeah mate, we need to fit our Pedders sway bar at $600 and the one you bought, nah mate that will be no good". I do feel like I have some excess body roll for a lowered vehicle. But then again I'm no expert and might be wrong. I think the front feels ok but the back could be a bit stiffer, but then again I don't want to sacrifice the comfort I have now.

Also don't want to cause an accident by having the wrong SB on the rear. Hard to know for an untrained person what will work decent with my current coil and shock combo.

I had a feeling the Walkinshaw springs are Eibach's. I'm sure I read something about Eibach providing Walkinshaw exclusively with a rear wagon spring and they only sold sedan/ute kits to the general public. I think it boiled down to buying a Walkinshaw kit at 3 times the price if you wanted Eibach's in a wagon, something like that!

Yeah I bough the ute with them fitted by a PO who said they are Walkinshaw. I had the badge, but that was soon removed as it looked stupid. I agree people pay a premium just because it's Walkinshaw, which I don't believe are anything special, more for the wank factor I feel. Are Eibach's a good spring?

 

[Forg]

Are Eibach's a good spring?

The brand is good ... however a spring is just a piece of metal, I'd be surprised if the quality of the metal itself differed between the spring brands you've heard-of, so the only difference would be how well suited it is to the vehicle it's fitted to. If'n you're getting a suspension expert to calculate the desired rates for you, and those rates are correctly calculated, I doubt it makes much difference which spring-maker you get to make the springs ... we corner-weighted my Volvo, East Cost Suspensions calculated what they thought would be best for the Bilstein shocks I was using(*) and it came out identical to the rates for King's springs for a VC-ish Commodore (although I think King's label may have been different front to rear - I think the fronts were King's HD but the rears were a "medium" spec).

Have Eibach done the R&D to know well what suits a VE or VF? That I couldn't answer. I'd be completely unsurprised if they'd put time into it, though.


(*) design/construction of those make a massively bigger difference to how well they works

 

[vc commodore]

Is there a way of finding out if you have softer shorter springs, compared to say Kings? Mine are apparently Walkinshaw and do seem soft as they won't carry 500kg in the tub without probably hitting or being close to the rear bump stops.
I have an 18mm rear SB off an Omega that I'm wondering if it might be too thick now given I have shorter coils? I was thinking Magnum 26mm front bar to even it out from a 23mm but given it's not easy to swap them out I'd prefer to have an idea before I start swapping parts.

I don't want to cause steering problems and have read by going thicker on the rear you should do the front to compensate.

Spring issue you seem to be concerned about..

2 ways I can think of that might help...

One get a set of HD springs.....Suitable if you are consistantly carrying heavy loads....

If you're not consistantly carrying loads, a pair of air bags....Can pump them up when you have a load in the tray to help stop the ass dragging on the ground....When you have no load leave them with 10 PSI in them which keeps them in good nick and is recommended....

Sway bar....I'm not going to say use this size or that size....My suggestion is more, you have driven the ute with both diametre ones fitted in the rear....You decide how it handled with both and make your choice from there..It's also your choice if you post up your thoughts....

As for helping the OP....Sorry can't....The sway bar sizes have been posted for you to decide which you'd prefer to use...

 

[chrisp]

Is there a way of finding out if you have softer shorter springs, compared to say Kings? Mine are apparently Walkinshaw and do seem soft as they won't carry 500kg in the tub without probably hitting or being close to the rear bump stops.
I have an 18mm rear SB off an Omega that I'm wondering if it might be too thick now given I have shorter coils? I was thinking Magnum 26mm front bar to even it out from a 23mm but given it's not easy to swap them out I'd prefer to have an idea before I start swapping parts.

I don't want to cause steering problems and have read by going thicker on the rear you should do the front to compensate.

I do wonder about the springs in your ute. It doesn’t sound right that it drops under relatively light loads.

Just as a suggestion, perhaps go back to OEM FE2 or FE3 springs and go from there? Holden would have put a lot of effort in to picking the spring rates to give a good all round performance. They’d be a great reference point for any changes.

I wouldn’t be swapping sway bars until the basic spring (and shock) set up is sorted.

 

[losh1971]

Not dropping another $1500-$1800 on new suspension when I have not long spent around $1000 rebuilding the struts. The coils are not worn out but they are small in diameter, which no doubt effects it load carrying capacity. Which is another reason I think they are a comfort spring and not load carrying spring. I don't what a set of shortened Lovells would carry. I'd never go Kings, even though some people like them they are not for me.

Having said that you stick two 100-120kg blokes in the back of most sedans and they sag pretty well in the rear, more than my ute does with 250kg in the back. So it could just be me, not used to the lighter steering when it's loaded up. I had a fair load travelling back from SA and it seemed fine and sat relatively level.

I'm keen to get an expert opinion before I do anything and when funds allow I will see what Pedders say. It could just be me and there are no issues to worry about.

 

[vc commodore]

Not dropping another $1500-$1800 on new suspension when I have not long spent around $1000 rebuilding the struts. The coils are not worn out but they are small in diameter, which no doubt effects it load carrying capacity. Which is another reason I think they are a comfort spring and not load carrying spring. I don't what a set of shortened Lovells would carry. I'd never go Kings, even though some people like them they are not for me.

Having said that you stick two 100-120kg blokes in the back of most sedans and they sag pretty well in the rear, more than my ute does with 250kg in the back. So it could just be me, not used to the lighter steering when it's loaded up. I had a fair load travelling back from SA and it seemed fine and sat relatively level.

I'm keen to get an expert opinion before I do anything and when funds allow I will see what Pedders say. It could just be me and there are no issues to worry about.

I honestly think you have answered your own question by saying you seemed to be happy with the way the ute travelled back from S.A with a load in it....

 

[losh1971]

I honestly think you have answered your own question by saying you seemed to be happy with the way the ute travelled back from S.A with a load in it....

I do wonder if it's just me? Coming from a live axle ute that was smaller and lighter and designed to carry, to a VE that handles a fair bit different could well be most of it. I rarely have to carry loads in this ute, as I just don't need too anymore. Whereas the old ute I was carrying heavy loads almost weekly to the house I was building at the time, so knew what to expect and how it felt.

I need to get an experts opinion before I start dropping more money on it. I'd give the sway bar a go but I have got paranoid after reading what could go wrong if it's too stiff.