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VT holden v6 lpg

Cheap6

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In no particular order:

I would suggest getting the largest tank that you can, subject to you being willing to give up the boot space and access to it through the rear seat. You will use ~30% more LPG than petrol and the extra fill ups will get old very quickly (although you do get to avoid the "discount day" ques with LPG). The extra fuel use should be the same proportionally highway and urban. Set up as it is meant to be (not how I actually run it) I get something like ~16L/100 km urban, ~10L/100km highway.

Keep asking the questions about what you actually get with any conversion in detail. In my opinion it is hard to go past the factory approved kit. At the very least it means that any problems will certainly be with the install rather than the kit or components.

The factory kit uses Impco components. It includes a MemCal that has a seperate ignition timing map for LPG, petrol start assist and a "valve saver" mode that adds petrol at high engine loads to control exhaust valve temperature. It also maintains the anti-theft functionality, something not all kits do. The current fuel gauge will read whichever fuel is being run on. The lines are pre-made (= neat) and stiffer rear springs included.

The upper cylinder "lubes" are a waste of time and money. Exhaust valve damage is an issue of heat and only then on sustained high speed (load) conditions. Correct ignition timing (on LPG) and the petrol cooling with the factory MemCal avoids most of it.

In considering the economics of LPG, note that the supermarket discount coupons are worth ~30% more because you still get the 4 cents per litre discount but buy more litres (= more $$$ saved).

You will have to change spark plugs every 20K km - so + ~$20 per year.

Used parts can be OK - I did my own car using used parts, plug and play, without even putting kits through the mixer or converter, but you might want to check the rules regarding the government rebate. I think that you have to provide written evidence of the provenance of the parts used in the conversion. This might be problematic with used parts. The copper lines and the rubber parts have to be new with any new install regardless.
 

VSteve

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IMPCO systems were made for stationary engines to begin with , LPG doesnt back fire its the engine's base tune that causes the stray spark from old leads or spark plugs worn out , a lean mixture can be casued by poor mixture control or poor intake gaskets and seals leaking air into the mix , a worn valve face or burnt valve can cause a back fire a crook lifter holding open the valve at the point of ignition , driver error when starting with foot on the throttle , incorrect spark plug gap , incorrect spark plug selection .

Regardless of the causes an LPG fueled car will backfire in the real world. Think of a room full of air and gas at the correct mixture to ignite. That is the state of your inlet manifold when running on gas. Also next door in the cylinder you have combustion occurring many times per second. All you need is the smallest flame to come back up the inlet valve and you have a nice big bang. So unless you can afford gas vapor injection then you should be stocking up on airboxes.
 

lufkin

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sorry if this is a little off topic, but i got gas installed a year ago and with my system once the car is moving i cant change from petrol to gas, some have said you can disable this, others have said no you cant because its in the memcal, anyone have any ideas, its frustrating for them times when you want to quickly go to petrol to overtake a heap of cars for example
 

Holdens Rule

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I've been running on gas for a few years now and haven't had one backfire yet. Might be lucky but even my mates haven't had a backfire.
 

strgas

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Used parts can be OK - I did my own car using used parts, plug and play, without even putting kits through the mixer or converter, but you might want to check the rules regarding the government rebate. I think that you have to provide written evidence of the provenance of the parts used in the conversion. This might be problematic with used parts. The copper lines and the rubber parts have to be new with any new install regardless.


DO IT YOURSELF gas conversions are so wrong and would be hard to claim the rebate coz you dont have a tax invoice from a credited installer , And if you have a gas fueled fire and explosion causing injury to you or others then questions will be asked as to who did the install , its like doing your own electrical work around the house and something goes wrong , not a leg to stand on in the end and your insurance company will void your policy .
 

vxcalais_01

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I have had 3 LPG cars so far and my advice would be to steer clear of the mixer ring type systems. They were initially designed for stationary engines that operate at a single RPM. IMPCO is probably your best budget system. The two main thing you need to understand with gas is expect backfires. Doesn't matter what people tell you. An LPG fueled car will eventually backfire and the only way to avoid this would be to install gas injection so your manifold isn't full of fuel that can combust in the first place. Secondly expect a lack in performance. This is due to the restriction that is placed in the intake. Once again gas injection will solve this issue. The only issue with LPG injection is the price and if you get a dodgy installer you might get swarf in the engine.

VSteve, there is nothing wrong with ring/mixer type setup. Plugs, leads and tune are the key to all setups. IMPCO is not a budget system, but one of the main world wide developers of LPG systems in the world ! Sprintgas is a Aussie company i believe. I have an AMR Impco copy 6 years on now, only 2 backfires in that time, 1 from a broken lead from a mechanic and the other i think i was hitting the pedal when switching form petrol to lpg.

The mixers are an excellent system, there is a guy with a Raptor Supercharger running a mixer setup up, no dramas... I have a VX11 Super 6 in the family running a mixer Impco system. People get gas for a reason, and that is to save money. Mine was my work car for 5 years, doing 500km a week just to work and back. So it was well worth it, and still is for carting the family around endlessly.

One workfriend has his VY Crewman on LPG and has the Injector System. LPG injectors fouled up, and Shell had to replace the system for him. THe injector system have added cost of needing the injectors to get serviced and cleaned out.
 

codeunknown

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well if the average runaround used 17 litres...per 100kms of lpg ..that be at av of $0.80 $13.60.....
if you used 13.60 of petrol...that be 10.4 litres at $1.30/litre
if we are saying 17litres/100 in lgp is the real 20% extra on fuel... and someone here has said it can use really 30% and we take that as city cycle use..of 30% so 25.5litres/100 of gas...
which would be $20.40 to city run a lpg
that figure would be equal to petrol use of 15.7l/100 in petrol...

i never seen a vt engine use that in petrol...as standard driving on any conditions in the city...
( that means no rev challenge or burnouts or what ever...)
we talking normal operation of the car...driving as if we have a cop following ...
doing speed limits...and driving with safety...

my normal driving style in country or city is conserative...
i flow with traffic
i use the speed limits...and cruise control and speed alert...and gps
i have times where i might be in a hurry ..and times where i have all day...
my city driving threw brisbane..or when i visit my home in sydney....city cycle never goes over 12.5l/100 in petrol in a vt.
my current drive to and from shops and around to footy coaching etc... shows 8.0l/100 av in the vt...

so i use to paying for and using city driving $16 per 100 max... and country and open driving $10.40

given what we said here in the post so far...shows lgp for my driving style is going to save me NOTHING! if the 30% and 20% figures are true...
and i am comparing E10 as my 1.30 fuel....as that is what i am using and have...
I know i get more milage from unleaded reg and super unleaded....but not enough to pay the extra...when not full loaded...

Fully loaded would be 5 people...and boot full and roof racks...or trailer or boat or carvan or a float....
and then unleaded and super--unleaded gives the extra punch...

And i am sure everyone you used E10 /normal and extra unleaded has done there own test on that and found the same results...
if you drive normally...

so if i dropped to lgp...which my driving style...it have to better 17--25 litre of lpg /100

i be getting gas....for these reasons....
1) 2nd fuel option
2) increase range
3) savings in cost per km
4) self protection when price wars or shortage of petrol fuel causes fuel price spikes in the country areas.

None of thoses are in that order of peference....but they be my reasons...

i am not a full blood greenie...but i consider dual fuel as a my aid to the cause....

So far given the rebate and prices ...and figures people have quotes for use in a lpg car...i would do better on petrol.
Its also been said that given the rebate and 5 year lgp fit plan ..the government plans on pushing the user pays tax price of lpg to the same range as petrol....it just wants more on it...to gain...

Now no one has mentioned the HOLDEN stated and tested 11litre lgp /100kms from their advertised speil on option fitted lpg to vt's when they first got released...
Why was 11/100 stated....?
It must have been a open road test...or toll ways or whatever...

No one would have a lpg if it used 30% then petrol...its not worth it...your wasting money...
it has to be 20%.......to place it in the hunt...

So i really like someone..who has lgp..that dont tow gear around the aussie...a city only driver...a country driver only too...or
someone
that drives and use the fuel I use to try there lgp only for the same use...and test it out...
so we compare apples to apples...
we need a person who has a healthy vt engine prefered a non supercharge v6 sedan
and be able toi manually over ride and sellect lpg or petrol...
who can match my city and country petroluse with E10
test the same use with LPG...

That will proove the real worth of LPG...cause as i said i good on fuel use now...

thanks those for their efforts so far...
And i hope i found a real tester to help sort real figures out...

:)
 

VSteve

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VSteve, there is nothing wrong with ring/mixer type setup. Plugs, leads and tune are the key to all setups. IMPCO is not a budget system, but one of the main world wide developers of LPG systems in the world ! Sprintgas is a Aussie company i believe. I have an AMR Impco copy 6 years on now, only 2 backfires in that time, 1 from a broken lead from a mechanic and the other i think i was hitting the pedal when switching form petrol to lpg.

The mixers are an excellent system, there is a guy with a Raptor Supercharger running a mixer setup up, no dramas... I have a VX11 Super 6 in the family running a mixer Impco system. People get gas for a reason, and that is to save money. Mine was my work car for 5 years, doing 500km a week just to work and back. So it was well worth it, and still is for carting the family around endlessly.

One workfriend has his VY Crewman on LPG and has the Injector System. LPG injectors fouled up, and Shell had to replace the system for him. THe injector system have added cost of needing the injectors to get serviced and cleaned out.

Well from personal experience I know first hand how bad simple mixer complex converter type systems are. They are very primitive in design. Impco and other complex mixer simple converter systems are a little better at metering fuel but still can't compare to fuel injection where a ECU knows exactly how much fuel is being delivered to the engine. I have a wideband AFR gauge and every time you plant your foot on petrol you get the same ratio. Try it on LPG and it can be anywhere from 10:1 to 16:1. The system is simply to simple to meter fuel correctly all of the time, under all load and RPM conditions. You should look into putting a burst plate or something similar on your super 6 to give the gasses when it backfires somewhere to go. A backfire under boost is also more violent than a NA car and your positive displacement Eaton wont give way to the gasses without something slipping or breaking.
 

QldKev

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Now no one has mentioned the HOLDEN stated and tested 11litre lgp /100kms from their advertised spiel on option fitted lpg to vt's when they first got released..

I know they claimed 11L/100km for the V6 Manual running on ULP (city). I've never seen a claim for that on LPG. Even the V6 auto they only claimed to get 12L/100km. Maybe the 11L/100km on LPG was country mode.

Holden also claims my VX can get: V8 Automatic Sedan City/Highway: 13.5 / 8.5 (L/100km)
If I drove really easy I may be able to get 13.5, but real world I get 16L around town;
and highway @ 8.5L/100, I wish, only once ever have I seen it set under 10L/100km

Even in this autoweb article
LPG Commodore Can Drive From Sydney to Adelaide Without Refueling and With Gas To Spare - AutoWeb News
they used a bit more than 20% diff between ULP and LPG; to get about 11L/100km from LPG in Highway .

But even allowing 20% more usage
If LPG is 80c/litre X 20% extra would equal .96c/L; still a lot cheaper than ULP. But don't forget to add servicing costs / the $$ spent diagnosing all the faults in the LPG setup over the life.

QldKev
 
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