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Want to sell my drag/street car to an interstate guy

VE-SSV-NT

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So I bought a street/drag car at the start of the year from a guy in QLD and it had been street regod and had its compliance plates in QLD, And We had it shipped to the NT and he wrote down the typical stuff on the rego papers as you would usually do and my understanding on my end as I receive the car, I would just happen to take it in for an inspection and what not, but was knocked back a bunch of times since the car is too modified at the moment to pass inspection
So I didn’t worry about registering and kept it for show and race days and I have a few people that want to buy it from interstate Right now
So my question is:
what Is the procedure of doing this since the car is not registered in the NT so it’s still not in my name? Could I just sell it and let the receiver of it File out the papers on his end saying it’s now his?
 

Skylarking

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Too many people wrongly believe the person listed on the registration document is the legal owner. That's not the case. It's especially apparent if the 'owner' has money still outstanding on the vehicle (to a bank or lease company). In such cases, such interest would almost certainly be registered on the PPSR.

The registration authorities only cares about noting the registered operator and getting their yearly fee. They want the registered operator details so they know who drives the car and thus who to send any speeding fines to ;) They do have an interest in knowing when the registered operator changes hands since they want to get paid any stamp duties owing (and still need to know who to send those pesky speeding tickets to).

(Oddly, companies are also considered 'people' from a legal perspective. So companies can be listed as the registered operator of motor vehicles. Some use this oddity to get away with having their business pay a bigger fine sans loss of a drivers demerit points)

Neither the rego authorities or PPSR guarantee who the legal owner actually is. Legal ownership is a contractual issue that the rego authorities don't car to be involved with, other than to get a few dollars of stamp duty out of any transaction :eek:

In your case, if the car was registered in QLD at the time of sale, then the QLD authority should have been notified of either a change of ownership usually within a 14 days of sale (and any taxes owing paid) or the registration should have been cancelled at the time of sale (then it's none of their business.

If the car was registered in QLD at the time of sale, and you bought a PPSR certificate showing no encumbrance (no other party had any interest in the car), that certificate along with a contract of sale and proof that full payment was made is all the proof anyone needs that the car is yours. Generally the sales contract and payment receipt is enough to prove ownership. Obviously it's always better is you had such docs tracing back the history to the original purchase from some dealer, ideally to the original dealer (provenance).

But from your perspective, being a modified vehicle, what would have been much better was to have all the engineering reports/approvals, receipts for parts (with VIN number of donor vehicles if used parts), receipts of work done (by businesses) any other relevant docs provided to and associated with the QLD registration modification plate. That way you can actually check that the mods on the car line up with the mods approved/accepted by the engineer/registration authority. Such docs may have made it a little easier to register the vehicle in NT... Such documents have a lot of value... :oops:

So, the problem you may now have is not so much about "ownership" but more about proving the engineering work that was done. Without such docs, it makes the vehicle much less valuable to someone who needs such engineering docs (so they can register it in their state)... Even if someone from QLD buys it, without such docs, re registering it may be a problem (dispite the mod plate and the rego authority having documentation on hand for the mods they approved).

Getting stuff re-engineered post modification may not be so simple. In @Ron Burgundy case, he needed specific info on the receipts for his Brembo brake mod, Ebay purchased calipers were not considered acceptable. Easy to do before the fact but imagine turning up to an engineer asking for certification after buying some Brembo Ebay specials and fitting them to your car... you may have all sorts of difficulties... the more mods, the more difficulties...

As for the procedure for selling, sign contracts and get fully paid before the owner arranges pickup or delivery ;)
 

vc commodore

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Too many people wrongly believe the person listed on the registration document is the legal owner. That's not the case. It's especially apparent if the 'owner' has money still outstanding on the vehicle (to a bank or lease company). In such cases, such interest would almost certainly be registered on the PPSR.

The registration authorities only cares about noting the registered operator and getting their yearly fee. They want the registered operator details so they know who drives the car and thus who to send any speeding fines to ;) They do have an interest in knowing when the registered operator changes hands since they want to get paid any stamp duties owing (and still need to know who to send those pesky speeding tickets to).

(Oddly, companies are also considered 'people' from a legal perspective. So companies can be listed as the registered operator of motor vehicles. Some use this oddity to get away with having their business pay a bigger fine sans loss of a drivers demerit points)

Neither the rego authorities or PPSR guarantee who the legal owner actually is. Legal ownership is a contractual issue that the rego authorities don't car to be involved with, other than to get a few dollars of stamp duty out of any transaction :eek:

In your case, if the car was registered in QLD at the time of sale, then the QLD authority should have been notified of either a change of ownership usually within a 14 days of sale (and any taxes owing paid) or the registration should have been cancelled at the time of sale (then it's none of their business.

If the car was registered in QLD at the time of sale, and you bought a PPSR certificate showing no encumbrance (no other party had any interest in the car), that certificate along with a contract of sale and proof that full payment was made is all the proof anyone needs that the car is yours. Generally the sales contract and payment receipt is enough to prove ownership. Obviously it's always better is you had such docs tracing back the history to the original purchase from some dealer, ideally to the original dealer (provenance).

But from your perspective, being a modified vehicle, what would have been much better was to have all the engineering reports/approvals, receipts for parts (with VIN number of donor vehicles if used parts), receipts of work done (by businesses) any other relevant docs provided to and associated with the QLD registration modification plate. That way you can actually check that the mods on the car line up with the mods approved/accepted by the engineer/registration authority. Such docs may have made it a little easier to register the vehicle in NT... Such documents have a lot of value... :oops:

So, the problem you may now have is not so much about "ownership" but more about proving the engineering work that was done. Without such docs, it makes the vehicle much less valuable to someone who needs such engineering docs (so they can register it in their state)... Even if someone from QLD buys it, without such docs, re registering it may be a problem (dispite the mod plate and the rego authority having documentation on hand for the mods they approved).

Getting stuff re-engineered post modification may not be so simple. In @Ron Burgundy case, he needed specific info on the receipts for his Brembo brake mod, Ebay purchased calipers were not considered acceptable. Easy to do before the fact but imagine turning up to an engineer asking for certification after buying some Brembo Ebay specials and fitting them to your car... you may have all sorts of difficulties... the more mods, the more difficulties...

As for the procedure for selling, sign contracts and get fully paid before the owner arranges pickup or delivery ;)


Hummm, so why is it in S.A, the rego authorities need to know the last registered owners details otherwise they refuse to transfer the rego into your name?

And yes, they flatly refuse to transfer the registration into your name, unless you name the last registered, or current registered owners name.....

If they were only interested in collecting the revenue for the sale and/or speeding fines, they wouldn't give a toss about previous owners names and would do the transfer
 

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@vc commodore, registration authorities are simply sloppy in their use of registered “owner“ terminology which is a historical hang up and is still reflected in the information they gather. Some of their process in gathering previous owner/operator details may be to provide some form traceability if/when there are ownership concerns or fraud. But in their own term:

The SA government registration and licensing system does not hold information about legal ownership of a vehicle.

Have a look at the proof of ownership pull down on the following page where it states the above.

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/drivin...-selling/transfer-vehicle-registration-buying

If one talks of legal proof of ownership, the rego papers prove little.

In any case, the bigger issue for the OP or any prospective purchasers of a modified vehicle the engineering certification; and all supporting docs that will make registering a modified vehicle much less of a hassle.
 

vc commodore

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@vc commodore, registration authorities are simply sloppy in their use of registered “owner“ terminology which is a historical hang up and is still reflected in the information they gather. Some of their process in gathering previous owner/operator details may be to provide some form traceability if/when there are ownership concerns or fraud. But in their own term:

The SA government registration and licensing system does not hold information about legal ownership of a vehicle.

Have a look at the proof of ownership pull down on the following page where it states the above.

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/drivin...-selling/transfer-vehicle-registration-buying

If one talks of legal proof of ownership, the rego papers prove little.

In any case, the bigger issue for the OP or any prospective purchasers of a modified vehicle the engineering certification; and all supporting docs that will make registering a modified vehicle much less of a hassle.

I can tell you from personal experience, you don't have the previous owners details, forget transferring the car into your name, because that is the proof they need who the previous legal owner of the car was. ie, the previous owners details, as listed on the rego papers.....So post all this internet crud up you like.....Come to this state, try register a car without the previous owners details as per the rego papers and see how far you get transferring it

Encumberance is another issue altogether.

The modifications as per the issue...Different states accept different levels of modifications and in some cases refuse to accept another state/ territories engineers report, which is what appears to be the issue here.

I know, all states/territories have been trying for years to have uniform modification laws, so issues like this don't become a nightmare...But like everything, states/ territories have never came to a mutual agreement, so it got thrown in the too hard basket and people like the op are left with a headache.

There was (or still is) a political party called the motoring party (or something similar) which was formed in part to help with these sorts of issues....But of course nothing has come of it.....And as I mentioned, I'm not even sure if they still exist
 
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rossimo

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Yeah in sa they won't let you transfer rego into your name without the previous registered operators details, but it still states on rego papers that proof of registration does not mean proof of ownership.

To the op, do you have some form of proof of ownership/purchase of the vehicle? Does the interested buyer want to register it or use it as a dedicated track car?
 

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... So post all this internet crud up you like.....Come to this state, try register a car without the previous owners details as per the rego papers and see how far you get transferring it
I haven’t said you don’t need the previous register opertaors details to transfer a registered car into your name... what I’ve said is the registered operator /= legal owner.

Spin it any way you like but I can buy a new car, pay cash and register the car in the mistresses‘ name. That doesn’t make her the legal owner... so she can’t legally sell the car cause I won’t leave the wife. If it was sold illegally by the mistress, it ain’t rocket science to reverse the illegal sale (may be expensive for lawyers and the subsequent divorce but ain’t rocket science).

As such, a buyer shouldn’t solely rely on rego docs as the authorities are clear they do not guarantee the registered person is the legal owner is. They go to some effort to clarify registered operator /= legal owner as referenced by their statement.

If you see SA rego authorities own words as crud, well what can I say :eek: Continue to believe as you like, it’s a free world.
...Different states accept different levels of modifications and in some cases refuse to accept another state/ territories engineers report, which is what appears to be the issue here.
True, the certifying engineers are defined by the registration authority itself, so if they are not on thier list, it may as well have been written by the checkout chick at Safeway.

Reality is we don’t even know if OP had all the original documentation to start with, only that it failed when presented for inspection...

Bottom line is that buying modified cars from interstate is fraught with registration issues...
 
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gtrboyy

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Hopefully previous owner filled in rego to transfer ownership to you so you're last known owner of vehicle before rego ran out.

Once you know you're proven owner of vehicle so then you can sell it on with stat dec/bill of sale receipt...may want to stipulate unregistered/modified with pics to cover your butt.

That way next owner ends up same situation as you they bought unregistered car with knowledge it may not pass rego....make sure they're 100% aware onus is on them.
 

vc commodore

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I haven’t said you don’t need the previous register opertaors details to transfer a registered car into your name... what I’ve said is the registered operator /= legal owner.

Spin it any way you like but I can buy a new car, pay cash and register the car in the mistresses‘ name. That doesn’t make her the legal owner... so she can’t legally sell the car cause I won’t leave the wife. If it was sold illegally by the mistress, it ain’t rocket science to reverse the illegal sale (may be expensive for lawyers and the subsequent divorce but ain’t rocket science).


Ah, you buy the car, register it in her name and she can't sell it?

I wish I had known you 25 years ago.....I bought a car, registered it in the ex's name and tried to sell it when she left me....She tried to have me up on theft charges, but managed to avoid them by having a claim for monies owing through work to the car buy a 3rd party...I even had the receipt for the purchase of the car in my name....If it wasn't for the monies owing claim, I would have been screwed. And that's out of a coppers mouth...

I also believe the same principals are in play to this day
 
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