Your thoughts on Alarms and Remote Starts

[Tasmaniak]

Lol, and three weeks later when the numbers wear off the buttons... you just got headstart

 

[Darren_L]

I have an alarm/immobiliser, but IMO remote starts are just a wank
I'm more interested in satellite tracking as added security

 

[Immortality]

I had a 5 star alarm fitted to my old VN years ago, the insurance company wanted it fitted. Years later I tried changing insurance companies but they refused to insure the VN because it had a 5 star alarm fitted and they couldn't understand the reasoning for good alarm on such an old car.....

The problem with a lot of alarms is that it has to be spliced into the factory loom at some point. If your a car thief and are familiar with the wiring on the cars you intend to steal it's fairly easy to remove the immobilisers. I spoke to a number of suppliers before I had my alarm fitted and they were very open with exactly how they did the install and 99% did it exactly the same. I'm not going into it but a reasonably competent thief would get past a decent alarm in a few minutes depending on how it's been installed. Having said that 90% of car thieves are after an easy score, it's the other 10% that are the troublesome ones and are a lot harder to prevent. Recently thieves stole 2 fully enclosed car transporters, even the police said it was most likely that they will be used to lift/transport stolen vehicles.

Alarm was good for key-less entry though.

On the issue of remote start, remote start is irrelevant if someone has gone to the trouble of stealing your keys they have your alarm remote as well.........

 

[jr_]

I'm not familiar with the hsv iss system you mention.

I'm pretty sure HSV's ISS was a re-brand 'Brant'. My insurance company told me I need this or similar on a VS I owned years ago. The installer told me that most of his work for this stuff was HSVs or WRX...but this was like 15 years ago.

 

[Darren_L]

I had a 5 star alarm fitted to my old VN years ago, the insurance company wanted it fitted. Years later I tried changing insurance companies but they refused to insure the VN because it had a 5 star alarm fitted and they couldn't understand the reasoning for good alarm on such an old car.....

The problem with a lot of alarms is that it has to be spliced into the factory loom at some point. If your a car thief and are familiar with the wiring on the cars you intend to steal it's fairly easy to remove the immobilisers. I spoke to a number of suppliers before I had my alarm fitted and they were very open with exactly how they did the install and 99% did it exactly the same. I'm not going into it but a reasonably competent thief would get past a decent alarm in a few minutes depending on how it's been installed. Having said that 90% of car thieves are after an easy score, it's the other 10% that are the troublesome ones and are a lot harder to prevent. Recently thieves stole 2 fully enclosed car transporters, even the police said it was most likely that they will be used to lift/transport stolen vehicles.

that's the problem getting an alarm installed by an installer. They all tend to do it the same way
I wired mine into harnesses that go up in behind the dash when I had the dash out, which means you really need to rip out the entire dash out to get to it.
Of course I'm not saying it's burglar proof, but they are going to have to spend considerable time trying to start it

 

[Tasmaniak]

I'm pretty sure HSV's ISS was a re-brand 'Brant'. My insurance company told me I need this or similar on a VS I owned years ago. The installer told me that most of his work for this stuff was HSVs or WRX...but this was like 15 years ago.

LOL, enough said. Brandt alarms were a pain in the proverbial. The amount of Brands I've removed from cars (specifically WRXs) is incredible

The problem with a lot of alarms is that it has to be spliced into the factory loom at some point. If your a car thief and are familiar with the wiring on the cars you intend to steal it's fairly easy to remove the immobilisers. I spoke to a number of suppliers before I had my alarm fitted and they were very open with exactly how they did the install and 99% did it exactly the same. I'm not going into it but a reasonably competent thief would get past a decent alarm in a few minutes depending on how it's been installed.

Nah, they won't. The biggest problem I've found in the past is that people goto places like Autobarns and JBHiFis for alarm installs. Fitting an alarm correctly is a specialized art almost and requires a specialized fitter. I've seen some of the abortions from the major retail stores. Door triggers that only alert when the drivers door is opened... the remaining doors are unprotected, visible wiring or worse yet, visible alarms. Like I found in the statesman, dropped down the panel and there is the alarm staring me in the face... dafuq?!? You don't see a GP for brain surgery.

I recently had a customer threaten to sue me because he claims that when he removed his entire dash to restore his car, there was no alarm system fitted. He just thought I'd installed a siren that chirps and controls his door locks. The fact that he removed his entire dash and still couldn't find his alarm tells me job well done. Thats one of the biggest compliments I've had in a long time.

I'm the first to admit that I charge a lot for an install but I like to think I'm justified.

Having said that 90% of car thieves are after an easy score, it's the other 10% that are the troublesome ones and are a lot harder to prevent.

Anti-Theft deterrents are always you're best options in that instance. I often swap out the red LED that comes with alarms for a blue one. Red screams factory immobilizer no alarm, lets take a chance. The other thing I recommend to most people is a flashing logo in the window. One of the major companies has a flashing EL logo that mounts in the window. It's cost is $40 but this big flashing logo I reckon has more value than the entire bloody alarm system. It screams "Move Along"

On the issue of remote start, remote start is irrelevant if someone has gone to the trouble of stealing your keys they have your alarm remote as well.........

Not too sure what you mean by making remote start irrelevant. Remote start is not a security feature, it's convenience... and on 30C+ days. I'm loving it. lol

that's the problem getting an alarm installed by an installer. They all tend to do it the same way
I wired mine into harnesses that go up in behind the dash when I had the dash out, which means you really need to rip out the entire dash out to get to it.
Of course I'm not saying it's burglar proof, but they are going to have to spend considerable time trying to start it

Refering back to my earlier comment, if you go to a major retailer you won't get a quality install you get glorified keyless entry. You get a fast install and that means visible and problematic. Like you say, it's not burgular proof but the trick is obviously the harder you make it the better. But often times, they don't want to steal your car, the just want whats inside.

 

[Immortality]

Nah, they won't. The biggest problem I've found in the past is that people goto places like Autobarns and JBHiFis for alarm installs. Fitting an alarm correctly is a specialized art almost and requires a specialized fitter. I've seen some of the abortions from the major retail stores. Door triggers that only alert when the drivers door is opened... the remaining doors are unprotected, visible wiring or worse yet, visible alarms. Like I found in the statesman, dropped down the panel and there is the alarm staring me in the face... dafuq?!? You don't see a GP for brain surgery.

I recently had a customer threaten to sue me because he claims that when he removed his entire dash to restore his car, there was no alarm system fitted. He just thought I'd installed a siren that chirps and controls his door locks. The fact that he removed his entire dash and still couldn't find his alarm tells me job well done. Thats one of the biggest compliments I've had in a long time.

I'm the first to admit that I charge a lot for an install but I like to think I'm justified.


Anti-Theft deterrents are always you're best options in that instance. I often swap out the red LED that comes with alarms for a blue one. Red screams factory immobilizer no alarm, lets take a chance. The other thing I recommend to most people is a flashing logo in the window. One of the major companies has a flashing EL logo that mounts in the window. It's cost is $40 but this big flashing logo I reckon has more value than the entire bloody alarm system. It screams "Move Along" .

My alarm was professionally installed and it would take a bit of effort to locate the actual alarm unit. I'm also fairly familiar with the wiring looms in Commodores so it doesn't take me long to figure out what is genuine and what isn't. Most alarms use 2 immobilizer circuits, some 3 so it's not rocket science where in the factory loom you need to splice into and unless you have the exact same tape as used by the manufacturer your going to see where that is fairly quickly.

My alarm came with a blue LED, the installer also fitted stickers but without a brand, thieves get to know different brands, what to look for, how they work so fitting a generic alarm sticker gives them less info to work with. Alarms really are a deterrent for the opportunist that is why I also use a visible steering lock, it it's to much hard work they will move onto an easier target.

If you leave something nice and shiny/expensive in the car the smash and grab guy doesn't care about the alarm as he's down the street by the time somebody sticks there head out a window to see what is going on and the average Joe public doesn't give a rats arse if a car alarm goes off most of the time unfortunately.

A work mate acquired a car and he had issues with the alarm system but wasn't really interested in having it fixed. Without knowing the car I explained to him what to look for and sure enough not long after he had removed the immobilizer circuits so he could drive the car without worrying about the alarm system causing trouble.

Look mate, I'm not saying that you don't do a good job etc but car alarms have there limitations and an experienced car thief would be able to get around 99% of aftermarket alarms.

In theory, you shouldn't be able to steal any late model cars with the factory security system but you still see plenty get stolen......

At the end of the day, If you drive something flash and someone wants it bad enough then it's going to be hard to stop them. The type of people that will scope out the car, where it lives, the owners routines etc The type of people who will bump the car to set of an alarm and then wait to see what happens (does the owner check etc).

There was a car theft ring operating in NZ, they were using towies to steal cars. Who looks twice if a tow truck takes a car and the alarm is going off???

Not too sure what you mean by making remote start irrelevant. Remote start is not a security feature, it's convenience... and on 30C+ days. I'm loving it. lol

Yep, I can understand that but some insurance companies might see it as a security risk

 

[stockies]

Most aftermarket alarms come down to the amount of add on's connected to it.
Duel sires - pisses off most people who hear the alarm go off.
Mini sirens under the dash - deafens anyone who is not prepared for it.
Tilt sensor - Must have as far as I'm concerned.
Duel shock sensors - overkill, but good overkill. (also good when the warn away function is not connected and triggers full alarm)
Glass break sensors - Another must have

And of course, battery back up siren(s) - the amount of cheap aftermarket ones that don't include one is astounding.

Lastly, it comes down to install, as Tas said - any doors that are not protected (boot and bonnet included) and visible fuses, control boxes etc - Thats a sign of a bad install.

 

[Yergin]

Yep, I can understand that but some insurance companies might see it as a security risk

Tas might be able to confirm but i thought that you still had to put the key in and turn to on before you could drive the car?. IE: no key in ignition won't go anywhere.
I might be wrong but i would've thought that there would be some feature enabled so that the car doesn't go anywhere.

 

[Demonica]

Mine turns off as soon as you hit the brakes, also the hazards non stop flash