Any Help? "Trap Speed" on new Police Cars & Disputing Police Fines?

[Robertr]

mate, just do what i've done a few times.
Write them a nice letter explaining how you believe you weren't speeding, and say you have an immaculate driving record. And ask if the fine can be downgraded to a warning. If it is your first driving offense I think you are entitled to a warning.

I didn't know you could do that. Thanks

A letter can't hurt. A nice polite, letter, where you polity state your case, and your record. And don't ask to be let off or for a warning, just ask for your history to be considered.

I would definitely consider a letter before court. I'll look into it but would you know where I could send one in QLD? Theres no option on the fine. Dep of transport and main roads or police?

Get a lawyer. You'll need one to seriously dispute this. One who is practiced in this type of law.
Just out of interest...what speed did they get you at, and what speed zone were you in?

If I was to go to court I would be representing myself. I'm getting in contact this week with a friend who is in law and another mate lives with a traffic cop and I was able to ask him a couple of questions. Everyones right it could cost a bit more but I'm prepared to part with a bit more if I did have a chance in beating it. I really think this fine is BS and I don't just want to roll over and cop it if they had made a mistake.
87km in a 70.

I've read in other threads that the factory speedos in COP cars have stickers on them saying something like not accurate, guide only or something. So how can they ping you based on their non calibrated speedo ?

Acarmody is right. For the speedos to be considered accurate they have to be tested at least every 6 months.

The "Trap Speed" is attached to the speedo but its not the accuracy of the speedo I would be arguing, its the method. I would be arguing that they had made a human error in recording my speed and had done so outside of guidelines as stated in their manual (found a couple of points so far).

I've got to do a bit more research into it and I'm also still waiting on advice from my law friend and some more information on how "Trap Speed" on the new commodores work as that is all they had recorded, no radar or video. I'll start with the letter of appeal first.

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far.

 

[Sabbath']

The method would be one that would be legally water tight enough to hold up in court. Otherwise they would find themselves dragged into court everytime somebody got caught going 17km/h over the limit and unhappy to pay the fine

 

[acarmody]

I'm not 100% sure but I think you send the letter to the senior officer of the station, of the cop that gave you the fine. Go to a cop shop and ask them who to send it too.

 

[greenacc]

In NSW you send letters of apeal to the place you send your money ... its called the OSD ( Office of State Revenue ) down here.

 

[Robertr]

The method would be one that would be legally water tight enough to hold up in court. Otherwise they would find themselves dragged into court everytime somebody got caught going 17km/h over the limit and unhappy to pay the fine

Yeah thats true, and I understand, why would a police officer pull me over without reason. I just think they have made a mistake when attaining my speed. Whether I was only speeding a little or not at all I don't beleive I was going 87. Not all the methods can be watertight unless there would be no appeal process and/or no one would ever win. I would have been happy to cop the fine if it said it there clearly on a radar that I was doing 87. But they recorded it with the "trap speed". There is nothing about trap speed in the police manual. Chapter 6 - Speed Detection

So far my understanding of "trap speed" is just a button that records the speed of the car that its in when pressed. The headlights of police car was closing on me until they hit the lights so they were going faster then I was if that is how they record it.

Following advice and after getting measurements of the road I was on there are also a couple of points in their manual I may be able to argue. I've sent the an appeal letter, see where that goes first.

 

[torch]

We were going down a hill and the police car was closing the distance between the whole time until they pulled me over. I checked my speedo when they hit the lights I don't think I was at the speed they recorded or even not speeding at all.

Im sorry, this part ^ of your story doesnt seem to ring true.

You were monitoring the position of a police car all the way down a hill in your rear view and you "think" you were not speeding? the thought or opportunity to check your speedo just once didnt occur to you in all of this?

what speed do you reckon you were doing and how did you arrive at your estimate?

 

[Robertr]

Im sorry, this part ^ of your story doesnt seem to ring true.

You were monitoring the position of a police car all the way down a hill in your rear view and you "think" you were not speeding? the thought or opportunity to check your speedo just once didnt occur to you in all of this?

what speed do you reckon you were doing and how did you arrive at your estimate?

Hey. I didnt know it was a police car until he hit the red and blue's. There is a corner then a 200m uphill, then after the crest a 500m downhill. As I came to the crest of the hill the police car still had not turned the corner. I noticed the headlights coming over the crest and they caught up to me and turned on the sirens about 3/4 way down the hill. At no point were they "following" me. They caught up and turned on the lights. When they hit the sirens I looked at my speedo and the needle was at 65km. I did release the accelerator when they turned on the lights but rolling downhill I wouldn't have lost 22kmh in the time it takes me to look from my rear view to my speedo. I drive the road everyday and I gave it a go the day after. I pulled over just at the bottom of the hill at a bus stop.

After I checked the speedo I thought I was all good speeding wasn't even a worry, I figured they had just seen me, black commodore with rims, leave the pub (pub is just before the corner) and it would just be an RBT. I was DD. I had two mates in the car and we had picked up a carton on the way out of pub (bottlo on the side). I had a couple of beers at the pub but I knew I would be under .05. I told the officer I had a couple when she asked. She breath tested me and took my licence went back to the car for a min or two then came back, i thought it was over i was under the limit I said "is that all good?" she said "yes your not over the limit" but then she started the speeding questions something along the lines of;

"did you know you were speeding" - "No, I don't believe I was going over the limit" "are you in a hurry" - "no" "do you know the speed limit" - "yes 70". "you were going 87" "I don't think thats right do you have this recorded" "yes we have it on the trap speed in the car" I went over the police car the officer in the car pressed a button and "trap speed 87" came up on commodore dash.

I asked how this worked she said they were following me down the hill and got my speed. I asked if there was any additional radar or camera footage she said "no, if you could please return to your car now" I was polite the whole time, you could ad a couple of pleasantries in the text "hows your night/been a busy one? ra ra ra" you get no where being angry or smartass to the police.

I went back to the car, told my mates what happened and they were pissed and pissed off, wanted to start arguing and making a fuss, i told them not to bother, waited a couple of min then she gave me the yellow paper. There was no use huffing over it there they had already written the fine so here I am getting my huff on.

 

[Sabbath']

You do realise...that if they dont actually have a radar, and want to find out how fast you are going, they have to speed up to how fast you were going? HerpDerp

 

[Robertr]

You do realise...that if they dont actually have a radar, and want to find out how fast you are going, they have to speed up to how fast you were going? HerpDerp

Yes, It's not the case here though. They wern't speeding up to my speed they were going faster then me. The officers were some distance behind me, not even in line of sight as I reached the crest of the hill, so obviously they had increase speed to catch up to me so they could see me. But follow speed is attained by comparing the subject vehicle (me) to that of the police car. Refer to Manual, I'll link it again. Speed Detection.

So they have to maintain my speed to gauge an estimate and record it, which they did not do. If they were catching up to me then they were going faster then me, at no point did they maintain speed and they pulled me over the moment they had caught up. If they were going faster then me up until the moment they pulled me over, and they pressed "trap speed", which records the speed of the police vehicle when pressed, at any point while catching up to me, wouldn't the speed recorded be faster then what I was going and not an accurate measure of my speed? And whats HerpDerp?

 

[Tsunamix]

Ask them to provide evidence of your alleged speed, in a format than can be presented to the court. If they present something that only Traps THEIR speed then contest it on the grounds that it does not trap YOUR speed.

As the Police are alleging this offence, Under law, they must prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were doing what they say you were.

If you can prove doubt of any sort, theoretically the magistrate must award in your favour.

The downside is that they are Magistrates, not judges, so their own opinions and prejudices are allowed to stand. I proved doubt in an offence four different ways, yet the magistrate awarded against me. I had a police prosecutor advise me, and script the entire proceedings - yet lost.

The problem is not evidentiary, the problem i sthat you are not sitting in front of a judge at first. If the magistrate finds against you, then you can appeal and go before a true judge who is bound by legal precepts.