Electric Vehicles

[Derekthetree]

My favourite thing about the EV green brigade is that some of these green cars are being powered by coal to recharge them

Which brings in the issues for the average person to own a EV, hell, our power supply struggles with every man and their dog running AC in their houses

Imagine everyone plugging in their EV into the grid at 1800

I believe the answer is ethanol, but to supply enough ethanol to "fuel the world" we would need to infringe of land that typically grows food crops

If we dropped, and held the world population by 50% we would be so much better off in relation to the environment and overall sustainability

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Or if everybody has an EV, you can borrow someone else's charge (by drawing it back out of the car) to replace it later. A sufficiently complex power ordering system could turn everybody's house into a giant set of batteries. Build more solar and wind, store excess power generation, then drawdown later...

You are right though, the world is hooked on the ultimate personal mobility item that is the car. Nothing else can beat its ability to go exactly where you want, when you want. Realistically to ensure future resources, the whole lifestyle has to change. Will it, who knows...

Ethanol is OK, but low energy density for production. You need to chop down the rainforest or use vast amounts of water to grow enough of it.
Green hydrogen is a good answer, fast to fill up and very low CO2 impact.

I recently read an article about a vehicle Land Rover had under development.
Hydrogen electric!

Basically hydrogen engine to recharge batteries which in turn run electric motors, and to refill hydrogen tanks takes about the same as a petrol tank.
So more of what we are used to with ICE motors but substantially less climate harm etc.

Been around for a while now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

 

[Pollushon]

The electricity argument is a pretty tired one. I used to tow that line but when you're wrong..... Has some merit but not enough to suggest that it outweighs any benefits or that it's not on the right track. Renewable energy makes up nearly 30% in use worldwide and that number is growing pretty quickly. As it grows, tired infrastructure gets replaced and expanded. If you live in the ACT and surrounding regions, 100% of the energy in use is renewable. On top of that the comparison of coal and gas emissions to charge an EV vs the emissions of a tank of fuel burned + other waste products even on an Eco box are pretty clearly in favour of the coal and gas

 

[keith reed]

When I first drove a car I was in my twenties having rode motorbikes before that. My first car was a Vanguard Ute. Top speed about 80 mph, economy 24 miles to the gallon. By todays standards it wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. If someone had told me that in the future it would be possible to buy a car that would be twice as fast with better economy under normal driving I would have not believed them. The cars you could buy at the time that were quicker but not faster than todays cars were American with economy around the 8-10 mpg.

Ford are working with a University in the States that will allow an electric vehicle to be charged in the time it takes to fill a car with petrol. Electric cars are in their infancy, things will only improve. Perhaps one day cars will be able to charge themselves as they run. I believe that if we were to have this discussion in ten years time our thinking would be completely different.

 

[MasterOfReality]

We are seriously considering an electric car when we downsize our CX9. The Merc EQC is ticking all the boxes.

Once we piss off all the kid seats we don't need such a large car. 100% of the driving the missus does is to the shops or to her mums.

We have my 200 series for longer trips if needed.

Its starting to make sense - have 3 phase power, looking at solar power as well (at least 12 kW), so that could help with charging during the day (not sure how much though).

 

[Ginger Beer]

Or if everybody has an EV, you can borrow someone else's charge (by drawing it back out of the car) to replace it later. A sufficiently complex power ordering system could turn everybody's house into a giant set of batteries. Build more solar and wind, store excess power generation, then drawdown later...

You are right though, the world is hooked on the ultimate personal mobility item that is the car. Nothing else can beat its ability to go exactly where you want, when you want. Realistically to ensure future resources, the whole lifestyle has to change. Will it, who knows...

Ethanol is OK, but low energy density for production. You need to chop down the rainforest or use vast amounts of water to grow enough of it.
Green hydrogen is a good answer, fast to fill up and very low CO2 impact.



Been around for a while now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

A chemical plant that I use to work at, ICI in Botany, made Hydrogen

Big long beds, with a layer of mercury covered in salt water, a low voltage high amperage charged was feed into the brine solution, creating Hydrogen, chlorine, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid, just to name a few biproducts

You can also make Hydrogen with natural gas, but then #renewable???

There are other methods in development, but all have there own issues, like ethanol

 

[Derekthetree]

A chemical plant that I use to work at, ICI in Botany, made Hydrogen

Big long beds, with a layer of mercury covered in salt water, a low voltage high amperage charged was feed into the brine solution, creating Hydrogen, chlorine, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid, just to name a few biproducts

You can also make Hydrogen with natural gas, but then #renewable???

There are other methods in development, but all have there own issues, like ethanol

https://theconversation.com/blue-hydrogen-what-is-it-and-should-it-replace-natural-gas-166053

Ultimately you can't get free energy, you'll need to create CO2 or some other by-product somewhere.

 

[hademall]

Well they are far more available than they used to be. Every major manufacturer has at least one, with plans for either complete conversion in the near future (Jag, Bentley) or just whole product lineups (like VW or BMW).

The fundamental technology hasn't changed much, just the cost and better control systems. So now you can get an entry level EV with reasonable city ranges.
The main issue is charging. Stations are not very plentiful, especially in Aus. Buying a Tesla gets you free access to the excellent supercharger network.

I buy CAR magazine from the UK, and at least half of the content is now EV/PHEV... a bit dull really.

Thank you. I guess that would be my concern regarding the charging stations and the availability of electricity, especially as we can’t seem to cope now when there is an overload on the supply.
My you, I’m a bit old fashioned regarding EV’s. Somethings should never change

 

[Immortality]

It seems some thought is going into charging EV's and load balancing the grid for optimum supply.

Driven Car Guide - Reviews, Comparisons and Automotive News

Get in-depth vehicle reviews, latest motoring news, car comparisons, and ask an expert. Find your next car.

www.driven.co.nz

 

[Immortality]

Interesting article, real world test on battery degradation.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Derekthetree]

Interesting article, real world test on battery degradation.

http://[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-...iles-highway-range-test/ar-AAV2H4t?li=BBqdg4K

[/URL]

That's higher than I though it might be (10% initial charge lost or 8 kWh, for those who don't click).

Modern rechargables in phones/cars start with a buffer. So the actual full capacity is say 100 kWh. The system will only let you access 90, and as the battery degrades, the missing 10% is allowed to be accessed. This helps prevent the user from noticing as much of a drop off.

I'd be interested to know if the new fully charged value quoted was claimed by manufacturer, or actual.