Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

The Climate Change ULTRA MEGA AWESOME Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

burnz

dah dut dut da dah
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
28
Points
48
Location
springfield
Members Ride
VFII SS ute M6
which they use to better the world.....through research.... that being a good thing?

They will still get paid the same... they dont get free cars or anything...

aZk.

um im not batting for any team here ..
any uni will come up with a answer that the sponsor will be happy with!!!

so if anybody quote's a uni must allso reaserch who is paying the bill!!!
 

Cheap6

New Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
2,498
Reaction score
74
Points
0
Members Ride
VP Exec
The other (David Evens who is actually is a specialits in creating models) speaks about how all these alarmest models out there wont show their results, algorithems and assumptions. He said he is sceptical on global warming because everyone is keeping their work hidden so no one can replicate it. So naturally it must be true because they said so. Thats not science thats BS.

um im not batting for any team here ..
any uni will come up with a answer that the sponsor will be happy with!!!

so if anybody quote's a uni must allso reaserch who is paying the bill!!!

Both of these replies demonstrate complete ignorance about how the scientific process works. As commsirac has said in an earlier reply, science is peer reviewed and seeks to find the truth, not come up with evidence to suppport just any answer you want. That would be called religion. I don't think that it's any coincidence that much of the scepticism for global warming comes out of the US where there is an established history of attempting to distort real science with religious doctrine. Many of the techniques used to generate 'doubt' over GW are the same as those used against creationism.

Peer reviewed scientific reports - i.e. published; reports don't get published unless they are reviewed for accuracy, consistency and repeatability - in quality scientific journals will not produce any conclusion not able to be substantiated. Part of a published scientific report will include the methods used to gather the data described in such a way as to ensure that it can be understood and repeated by others if necessary. That means if you disagree with the results someone else has found, you can try to prove it. The result is the truth.

In my experience and in general, people who become scientists don't do it for the money (although there are a few areas where a lot of money can be made in science, it isn't in climate change/GW). They are very bright, well educated people and could probably make a lot more money had they done something else with their lives. They do what they do, and work very hard doing it, because they are interested in the area they are studying. To try to produce a result that someone else wants to see for mercenary reasons is not consistent with that and potentially professional suicide with peer review in any case. (There have been a very few cases where that has indeed occurred).

Because of the time scale for climactic change in the past vs how quickly we have altered the climate recently, it is difficult to get sufficient data to be able to say with mathematical certainty that what we are currently seeing in terms of temperature change is a long term trend. That is not the same as saying that the data doesn't point in a particular direction. For the same reason, it's difficult to determine the extent of the changes that will occur because it's a complex system with various feedback loops and there uncertainties involved, such as the necessity to make estimates of exactly the rates at which we will be putting GH gases into the atmosphere in the future. once again that's not the same as saying the data doesn't point in a certain direction; questioning the extent of change is not the same as questioning whether or not it will occur.

It's also worth saying that research into climate change covers multiple areas of science; the question has been approached from many different angles and diverse scientific specialties, not just one or two. Are all those people in on some big conspiracy? Of course not.
 

burnz

dah dut dut da dah
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
28
Points
48
Location
springfield
Members Ride
VFII SS ute M6
Both of these replies demonstrate complete ignorance about how the scientific process works.

no it demonstrates your lack of comprehension of my post!
 

commsirac

Banned
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
1,183
Reaction score
20
Points
0
Website
www.google.com
Members Ride
vx
Burnz, this is what you said:
um im not batting for any team here ..
any uni will come up with a answer that the sponsor will be happy with!!!

so if anybody quote's a uni must allso reaserch who is paying the bill!!!

You strongly imply that cash for comment or favourable findings can be obtained from researchers in universites or government research organisations.(well you didnt mention them, but assume you'd probably want to include them too, ie CSIRO etc)

Perhaps you didnt get any further into Cheap 6's reply than when he mentioned your ignorance on scientific matters.

He certainly did comprehend your post and addressed your implications here:

Peer reviewed scientific reports - i.e. published; reports don't get published unless they are reviewed for accuracy, consistency and repeatability - in quality scientific journals will not produce any conclusion not able to be substantiated. Part of a published scientific report will include the methods used to gather the data described in such a way as to ensure that it can be understood and repeated by others if necessary. That means if you disagree with the results someone else has found, you can try to prove it. The result is the truth.

Sure there have been academics that have corrupted findings, reports etc.....they get found out, because of the process Cheap 6 mentions ^.
 

commsirac

Banned
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
1,183
Reaction score
20
Points
0
Website
www.google.com
Members Ride
vx
I'm sorry if Professor Carter angers you I mean he has the credentials, evidence (using real data, and real evidence and not modelling), unlike you who uses google as his weapon. I guess a guy who would rather see the world have clean drinking water, sanitation and cheap power must be a bastard..

I think you are confused. I am not a climate scientist or claim to have made any findings which support global warming or the causes of. I have read the evidence that is out there, since it was first bought into the public domain and am happy with the level of scientific integrity that has accompanied the thousands of findings by scientists that have done research in this area. So, I make no apologies for having to use google to find out something about which I dont know, unlike those who wish to remain forever ignorant.

Professor Carter, well he is a geologist/marine biologist, not themselves great qualifications for commenting on changes in the rate of fusion on the sun or statistics....be very careful with what "experts" happen to be talking about, PhDs are typically gained in very selective/narrow areas.

Also remember that our only scientist in parliment said that global warming wasn't happening but was told that he didn't know anything.
Who is that? and what does he know? .....but the poor persecuted soul that is the only one who knows what is going on.

It wasnt so long ago that Barry Jones first tried to introduce the idea to parliament about global warming and what needed to be done and was given the usual ridicule/treatment that you would expect from the others there. So there are now a few that have their heads still stuck in the sand and they are claiming to be visionaries that can see its all a scam........amazing.
 

vlv8vic

<---Brad Quaid = internet stalker
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
3,774
Reaction score
83
Points
48
Location
Australia
Members Ride
M5
I can't understand how people can be so narrow minded. It always comes back to the same childish crap that "global warming is a myth".
WELL. regardless of what people think i'd rather breathe cleaner air. Id rather see people close to me and even those who aren't looking for healthier choices. It is great to rely on everyone else for everything, ie. your petrol and food but some people need to grow some balls and start doing things for themselves which somewhere along the way might actually have a positive impact on society.
I hate leeches who feel they have to justify their idiocy by relying on global warming as a myth to wriggle their way out of viewing this from every other angle.
Cleaning up is a natural progression, it's a larger version of banning smoking in pubs and clubs. I agree big business is a major (the major) contributer but the little guys (us) need to be educated and put the pressure on them by baling on smog producing procedures.
 

vztrt

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
393
Reaction score
6
Points
0
Age
40
Location
NTH Suburbs Melbourne
Members Ride
VXII Exec
Both of these replies demonstrate complete ignorance about how the scientific process works. As commsirac has said in an earlier reply, science is peer reviewed and seeks to find the truth, not come up with evidence to suppport just any answer you want. That would be called religion. I don't think that it's any coincidence that much of the scepticism for global warming comes out of the US where there is an established history of attempting to distort real science with religious doctrine. Many of the techniques used to generate 'doubt' over GW are the same as those used against creationism.

Peer reviewed scientific reports - i.e. published; reports don't get published unless they are reviewed for accuracy, consistency and repeatability - in quality scientific journals will not produce any conclusion not able to be substantiated. Part of a published scientific report will include the methods used to gather the data described in such a way as to ensure that it can be understood and repeated by others if necessary. That means if you disagree with the results someone else has found, you can try to prove it. The result is the truth.

So if someone that has knowledge in the area says that the data used is incorrect or the models aren't using all the variables why are they automatically discredited?

Or if the data out there says that the climate has been hotter in the past then now and we survived. The IPCC report seemed to give alot of different results on the magnitude of this "problem". Then there were scientists that wanted their name taken off (and threatened legal action) as they didn't agree with the findings and summary of the report.

My mind isn't gonna change on the subject, as I think the world is better off concentrating on reducing polutants into our atmosphere and cleaning up our air so we dont turn into cities Shanghi and Beijing (if you've been there you'll know what I mean). Or cleaning up water in countries where comapnies pollute them and make people sick.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but when I see the pro global warming info it just seems like they wanna scare people more then present the facts. So until I can find something that I feel is more scientific then scare mongering I may change my mind.

I'll leave this now as all I did was give my opinion but because I didn't agree with some of the people who like to voice their opionion on the subject I got into this BS debate.
 

vlv8vic

<---Brad Quaid = internet stalker
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
3,774
Reaction score
83
Points
48
Location
Australia
Members Ride
M5
to add my thoughts, i unfortunately just missed bidding on a car i was to convert to run used veggie oil. Going to keep looking.

also, my concern with elec cars is that we don't have very good battery technology. It has certainly come a long way but has a long way tro go. Batteries in these cars are often equally as expensive to replace as the fuel would cost and have to be disposed of in landfill. I like the idea - it just has a long way to go.

Perpetual motion - i wish. Scooter, i'm sure anyone with some deep thinking will have at some point pondered the same thing you did until they learned it can't be done (yet). Don't mind the geeks who feel the need to carry on about it.
 

commsirac

Banned
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
1,183
Reaction score
20
Points
0
Website
www.google.com
Members Ride
vx
My mind isn't gonna change on the subject, as I think the world is better off concentrating on reducing polutants into our atmosphere and cleaning up our air so we dont turn into cities Shanghi and Beijing (if you've been there you'll know what I mean). Or cleaning up water in countries where comapnies pollute them and make people sick..

My mind is open to change. If undisputable information comes to hand that tells us the rising CO2 levels cause absolutely no problems and that temperatures would drop to levels of pre industrial age, snow on the Australian alps would return etc, nothing could make me happier.

Cleaning up cities of smog? Good way to cut down smog is to stop burning fossil fuels.......its proven!

Water, now there is a big issue, and you dont think it has anything to do with climate change, suppose not as climate change doesnt exist....
 

feistl

New Member
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
850
Reaction score
6
Points
0
Age
37
Members Ride
VX SS II 6.3L/M6
Hey guys,

Im in two minds over climate change.
Firstly, we pump a lot of pollution into the air... that cant be good. Regardless...

But we are experiencing warmer weather at the moment... and i think the one major stat that proves we are not to blame is that Mars is experiencing the same temperature increase (look up the FACTS). Think about it this way...

We have a giant star thats 1000 times larger than earth burning at millions of degrees relatively close to us. It would stand to reason... any small change in teh suns output of heat and light is going to effect us. A 1% change in the sun would more than explain the temperature changes here on earth. In fact the sun goes through "Hot" and "Cold" periods.

Anyway, ignoring all of that and back on topic...

I am seriously considering riding to work (30-35kms each way) but the one major hurdle is where to shower/store clothes/bike.

I cant show up to work in bike clothes all hot and sweaty... I obviously need to have a shower and get changed. Im really struggling to find somewhere (been looking at gyms) to do this (im in South Melbourne btw, 60 Albert Street).

I would like to see companies installing showers/change rooms at work, or a business setting up something similar. That way i could lock my bike up, have a shower and be presentable for work.

Transport costs are seriously expensive... $1.80 for fuel (use about 10L a day?) Plus citylink/etag costs and parking... I reckon i spend about $25-30 getting to/from work each day. Riding in would help this a LOT.

In fact i wouldn't even mind spending $50 a week to have somewhere to shower/change in the morning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top