Are the (MSE/Director) & Magnum the best factory standard performance sedans/utes ever made?

[EternityDre]

The mustang to me is a great drive you feel like your driving the car, VF I feel I'm sitting in the car.

I said this earlier in this thread but my good mate who works at Ford drove my MSE the other day and was absolutely shocked at how good it was.. He's driven a lot of Mustangs including modified Rouch ones and the FY19 model (have pics but can't share, infotainment screen is very Audi like), and he said and I quote: the MSE inspires so much confidence, it's so easy to get in and drive and it feels like I'm the limit rather than the car, so much more to give, whereas in a Mustang I couldn't do half of what we just did without spinning the car into a ditch.

Says it all.

 

[Forg]

I wasn’t super-excited about the Mustang convertible I rented & punted up to the Hunter Valley & back; but it was a convertible, so I can’t really judge the coupe from it.
Except the brakes, not very good brakes compared to a VF1.
And except the sound, as driver it sounds WAY better than a VF1.

 

[UTE042_NZ]

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1803/is-this-twin-turbo-v8-the-hero-engine-of-holdens-future
Interesting..

"The new engine – we’re yet to learn its code – provides 98kW per litre of displacement – HSV’s 6.2-litre LSA produced the equivalent of 66kW/L."

 

[monty_vfssv]

"The new engine – we’re yet to learn its code – provides 98kW per litre of displacement – HSV’s 6.2-litre LSA produced the equivalent of 66kW/L."

Fords gen3 coyote is making 69kw/L naturally aspirated.. and interestingly alot of 1000cc bikes these days are making over 150kw/L NA (with 15000km service intervals).. our old pushrod v8s are simply dinosaur tech.

I do like that unit of measurement for comparison of peak numbers.. its not a good indication of power delivery or drivability of said engine in everyday situations as this is determined by many other factors and driveline ratios etc but still interesting none the less!

 

[monstar]

HSV’s 6.2-litre LSA produced the equivalent of 66kW/L."

Well that’s before boost correction to compare with the rest of Holden or HSV’s lineup, in real terms it is far worse than that (see below).
Yeah, apples with apples when comparing say 1960s 6.5cc glow plug two stroke model airplane engine (180 hp/ litre) to my 35 year old CR80 at 341 hp/litre to a 30 year old formula one 1.5 litre that makes 1600 hp... to 50 year old dragster that makes 1000 hp/ litre.
Specific output is hardly a useful universal measure of engine design, nor is it a reference point for passenger car engine technology.
I remember reading about the highest specific output being around 5000 hp per litre in a micro engine with a relatively massive engine feeding power (fuel, air) to it.
Useful milestone when talking about the efficacy of engine modifications through development iterations.

 

[Forg]

I do like that unit of measurement for comparison of peak numbers.. its not a good indication of power delivery or drivability of said engine in everyday situations as this is determined by many other factors and driveline ratios etc but still interesting none the less!

Dunno ... at first I thought it was interesting, but I think I was under the impression that cubic capacity was approximately proportional to engine weight or engine fuel consumption.
Thing is, the n/a LS series manage to use greater cubic capacity compared to other DOHC V8 engines to use less fuel & yet more powahz while being a smaller/lighter package.

This isn’t one-eyed crazy monstar freakazoidism; it’s reality.

 

[monty_vfssv]

Dunno ... at first I thought it was interesting, but I think I was under the impression that cubic capacity was approximately proportional to engine weight or engine fuel consumption.
Thing is, the n/a LS series manage to use greater cubic capacity compared to other DOHC V8 engines to use less fuel & yet more powahz while being a smaller/lighter package.

This isn’t one-eyed crazy monstar freakazoidism; it’s reality.

Very true! Being able to vary exhaust and intake cams independent of one another certainly has its disadvantages when talking size and weight..

 

[UTE042_NZ]

Dunno ... at first I thought it was interesting, but I think I was under the impression that cubic capacity was approximately proportional to engine weight or engine fuel consumption.
Thing is, the n/a LS series manage to use greater cubic capacity compared to other DOHC V8 engines to use less fuel & yet more powahz while being a smaller/lighter package.

This isn’t one-eyed crazy monstar freakazoidism; it’s reality.

I was thinking of Monstar when I posted and wondering how long till he would pitch in. (4.5 hours)

I too found it interesting that GM, in maintaining a V8 option, decided upon the path of reducing cubic capacity by 30% and bolting on 2 hairdryers to gain 50% more power per litre of comparative displacement.

Judging by the somewhat extreme measures Holden used to lighten my Magnum so they could get it within fuel/mileage/emission requirements (detuned, alloy bonnet & brake caliper covers, stripped and discarded spare, jack, horn & loom, windscreen washer bottle smaller than my bladder) I believe the LS3 has reached the achievable ceiling for the old Chevy small block and has no more headroom for when those regulations tighten further in the future.

So they are going the way of the European performance marques, with smaller bores and higher revs. The result will probably sound closer to a Formula 1 V10 than a 350CI V8. Likely won't be as long-lasting either and two turbos will be twice as expensive to maintain/repair but, as such, seems to continue the trend of the "throw-away society" we now live in.

 

[gluten3]

I too found it interesting that GM, in maintaining a V8 option, decided upon the path of reducing cubic capacity by 30% and bolting on 2 hairdryers to gain 50% more power per litre of comparative displacement.

Judging by the somewhat extreme measures Holden used to lighten my Magnum so they could get it within fuel/mileage/emission requirements (detuned, alloy bonnet & brake caliper covers, stripped and discarded spare, jack, horn & loom, windscreen washer bottle smaller than my bladder) I believe the LS3 has reached the achievable ceiling for the old Chevy small block and has no more headroom for when those regulations tighten further in the future.

I am pretty sure that a pushrod V8 will have difficulty meeting the next emission standards of the 2020s. Euro 5 and 6 were the same for petrol engines, giving manufacturers a bit of relief, but still Chrysler struggled to make their big V8 pass the tests.

 

[monstar]

I am pretty sure that a pushrod V8 will have difficulty meeting the next emission standards of the 2020s. Euro 5 and 6 were the same for petrol engines, giving manufacturers a bit of relief, but still Chrysler struggled to make their big V8 pass the tests.

Coz Hemi.