3.6l VZ allotec starter motor removal, the easy way.

[wannaeatyourbrains]

Whew…

Learned a few things this morning.

1. Those brushes were a bad choice. Way too long. Brushes for this starter are 12mm x 11mm x 4mm when new.

2. Shop wisely. I should have measured the commutator. I saw the right ones in the shop, right thickness and all. Didn't get them cause they looked way too short. Ended up doing a lot of sanding to make a poor choice fit. Pencil grounds all over the floor and mat now, gotta clean up before I get busted.

3. The brushes are unlikely to be the problem. Probably all that for nothing, because in retrospect the old ones weren't that worn. It must be the armature that wears out over time. Doesn't really look repairable to me, either.

4. We get ripped off. They could make it a lot more durable than they do.

4. Anything with springs requires great patience.

Well, I got it squared away in the end. Brush rack is like new anyway. I will put in back in the car and see what happens. ​

 

[wannaeatyourbrains]

Works like a champion.

So there you go. The armatures do last well, and you can reinvigorate these babies for $4. Solder works well.

I have advice about armatures, and about the starters in general, if you are buying one or scrounging from the wreckers.

One of mine is an original Mitsubishi one, and the other is cheap Chinese.

The cheap Chinese one is actually very well made, and the parts are completely interchangeable with the Mitsu.

The main differences are, the solenoid of the Chinese one is the one that went. It took 3 years. The Mitsu solenoid, which is 14 years old now, is still good.

The problem with repairing the solenoid is the metal casing is pressed onto the cap. The lip of that is gonna have to be cut or ground off, which will necessitate modification to reattach it. Looks possible. Not sure if the guts are repairable yet, but I read elsewhere on this site they are.

Most importantly, the Mitsubishi armature is sealed, to prevent dirt getting inside it where you can't clean it out, so look for one like that if you want to buy just an armature. It has a fibreglass collar below the commutator, to identify it in a mound of parts.

I note also that brush racks with new brushes and solenoids are available on AliExpress for much better prices than the robbery of the ones on ebay. They look like exactly the same ones, although I have yet to check closely.

The wire that needs replacing in my car is the feed wire to the solenoid - the one that clips on. The purple one. Mine wasn't burnt out. The wire has become frayed and perished from being clipped and unclipped over the life of the car. I found a break in the insulation with verdigris on the copper 5 inches back from the clip, under the secondary insulation. If your starter is turning over slowly, this, and the clip itself, are worth checking.

 

[Fu Manchu]

This part of the thread should be split and made into a how to.

 

[gungazza]

was a easy job for me

 

[wannaeatyourbrains]

I wanted to add a bit extra here for others. After some time, my reinvigorated starter motor started turning over slowly as well when the engine was hot. The battery would go flat in an instant trying to start the car hot.

Upon inspection, I found a loose and dirty connection on the alternator, where the large positive cable - big red wire to the battery - bolts on. So if you have a problem, look for that too.

Not sure what had been going on there yet, but there had been tremendous heat. The nut had welded itself onto the connector, and the insulation and wire had cooked black for an inch back from the connection. Totally stuffed.

Hard to see because my engine bay is always dirty from the dust, and the problem was hidden by that grey rubber cap. Which is remarkably tough, surviving all that.

I found the entire wire from the battery to the starter motor was in bad condition too from exposure to engine heat, so I just changed the whole lot - that is, thick red cable from starter to battery, and from battery to alternator, which share the same connection.

You can snip the old wire off, than drill the remains out of the terminals, then pry them open with a hammer and punch in a vice, to reuse them. I polished them up with a wire brush on the drill, and then hammered them back onto the wire. I brazed it this time as well. Used really nice, ever so slightly thicker cable. Re-routed it all more away from the motor and put new heat insulation on it, cause that cable don't come cheap.

I swapped out the alternator for the backup, cause it is time to re-invigorate that too. Done a lot of dusty miles. Gotta check it over, that the part is not the problem.

Like a new car now it is getting proper charge.

There were no error codes showing on my reader or my mate's Tech II, although the problem had been there some time and the car is tested frequently. Only ultimate failure and inspection showed it up.

Damn, I was bummed when the backup alternator was making a hissing noise on startup...only to find I had left the tap on the catch can open. Easily solved problem.

 

[Skylarking]

@wannaeatyourbrains , finding the correct brushes can be a challenge as the material composition does vary (from soft to hard) depending on designed load and expected life span. So it’s not simply to match size thinking your ok. Sadly manufacturers don’t list such brush parts these days as they prefer you buy the whole starter motor as an assembly, which just makes getting the correct brushes that much more difficult

Also, using petrol to clean something is not the safest from a personal perspective. Using petrol as a cleaning fluid on a starter motor armature is also probably asking for different trouble as the wiring is lacquer coated and the petrol could dissolve or degrade the lacquer insulation causing winding shorts. Thus it would be a safer choice to use an electrical contact cleaner or such tasks

Other than some caution on the brush/cleaner issue mentioned, I like what you’ve posted

 

[intensess]

Hi all,

so Ive now come across this same dreaded issue.
However I believe my wires are the issue.
I’d started getting nothing at the key, thought tapping the starter was fixing it but then started hearing an intermittent spark while cranking.
It’s now become a jiggle of the main lead to get it to work, works perfect when the lead is in the right spot.

Thjnking of changing the lead but I have the access issue, heat shield over the exhaust as well as shield over the starter.
Got me stuffed how u blokes get ya hands in there....

 

[wannaeatyourbrains]

I have to admit, mine does not have a heat shield. I have never seen one on a VZ here in Saudi. Whether the export car did not come with one, or it was the first thing the ghetto mechanics threw out, I don't know. I use the aftermarket wrapping.

But I can show you what you are going for.

Starter sits like that on the motor. Small threaded hole on top of the solenoid I am guessing is where your heat shield bolts on? Holes on the right are the 11mm bolts holding the starter on.

You gotta reach around the back of the manifold, between the exhaust and the firewall. You can actually look in there to see the top of the starter. Don't do it if the motor is the least hot. I just started the motor for 30 seconds before doing it once and the exhaust burned my arm.

You can get at the lower bolt from underneath if need be. It is very easy.

I guess your heat shield makes all the problems. Sorry I can't help you there.

Maybe your connections are just loose, and you will only have to tighten them up.

The big red positive cable bolts onto the top of the solenoid, copper thread, and you can tighten it if need be. You will have to unbolt the starter and pull it back to the power steering pump for that. Go in front of the exhaust.

I guess that the feed wire might have come loose on yours. You can clip it back on properly. It's the smaller purple wire. You don't have to unbolt the starter to do that, just put your hand in past the engine mount, you can grab it easy.

This starter is from an American Caprice, so the solenoid is turned the opposite way to my Australian ones. It has a plug, whereas my Australian ones have a simple clip. But same place on the solenoid, you can see it behind those two copper threads.

On another note, I want to show those interested, which is most of the people I met here, how the Saudis know a good car when they see one. Spotted this guy in the parking lot. A student at the base hospital university. They drive some fancy cars here, but he told me this is the best car he has ever seen or driven. And he is right! He was devastated to find out about Holden. I told him save the car.

They love Australia here, and the Commodore has a huge fan base.

 

[99notout]

Looks like he's got a bit of a coolant leak there!

 

[wannaeatyourbrains]

Not his car. I think it is water from someone's air con. The students sit in the car park with the car idling for hours, hanging out. Petrol is still dirt cheap here and the air is too dusty to enjoy sitting outdoors.

And for the other guy, you gotta put your hand in here.

You can see the top bolt of the starter if you look under the brake fluid reservoir on mine. Not sure where that will be on yours. It is dimly visible there in my pic.

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