AFM L76 lifter rattle when cold WTF?

[Mitch-VE6LTR]

I wouldn't touch an AFM V8 let alone an auto SS for a start. Also it's a pushrod engine they have hydraulic lifters they always make noise from my experience where as solid lifters (commonly found on DOHC and OHC engines) make no such "tack, clack, nock or rattle" I haven't listened to the sound files but EVERY engine since the gen 3 makes noises that's what you get with a pushrod alloy engine. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the engine but my friend who works for Holden and has done for 9 years now told me they ALWAYS have people coming in complaining about normal noises all the time... Holden says they cant hear the VERY FAINT nock I have when cold and only when you put engine under some load. Eg; let clutch engage friction point. EVERY 6 liter I have listened to makes this noise and some people don't pick it up untill you record it and play it to them. Which I'll be doing very soon to demonstrate the noise with a few YouTube Links to demonstrate other cars doing the same thing.

 

[Mitch-VE6LTR]

By the way it's the exact same reason they didn't replace gen 3's well it wasn't an official recall. Because it would send Holden BROKE!! Imagine the cost involved in replacing engines? Holden and GM aren't exactly rolling in cash at the moment.

 

[OldDog]

Well then Mitch, if you can't even take the time to listen to the vids, you are a clown, and a rude one at that.

 

[Mitch-VE6LTR]

I cannot listen because every time I try it doesn't work. I dont have acess to a PC only my phone. Delete the stupid AFM and put normal lifters in it. Why have cylinders pumping up and down and not creating power. I honestly don't see the point. However some people do and that's fair enough each to there own. I'm not a clown And I'm not rude I'm expressing my opinion just like everyone else. I will do my best to check the sounds out. Also I want you to listen to the sound mine makes once I upload it. Its an E85 manual V8. In the mean time go to YouTube and type in orssom1 check out there installation video skip to the end where they start the car listen to the knock.

 

[bladerunner]

I'm not taking sides here. mine rattles a bit, Im not concerned. Mitch according to your ride you drive a ser2 ss. your engine is the L77 which is an AFM engine. Ser2"s have a one size fits all engine.manuals it's switched off. Autos switched on etc..

 

[HEXEM]

By the way it's the exact same reason they didn't replace gen 3's well it wasn't an official recall. Because it would send Holden BROKE!! Imagine the cost involved in replacing engines? Holden and GM aren't exactly rolling in cash at the moment.

As OldDog has said you realy need to listen to the videos before continuing with your statements on this issue. The engine issues I had started with and L98 which doesn't have AFM lifters. Holden spend a lot more money in service time, parts etc to measure and rebuild an engine for me the first time only for it to fail within a few months. They decided to install a new L98 long motor (or 3/4 service engine) which lasted 8,000klm before coming to the same fate.

The noise was so obviouse with my car that it could be heard across the workshop with the Holden Rep standing near the car. Their comment was yes that is bad and should not be making that sound. They spoke with the Holden engineers who got the to try and isolate the issue by doing some tests but the noise kept going. The engineers said don't continue just replace the engine.

Since the L77 has been in there is not cold startup knocking at all. This is not to say that it won't down the track but from research myself and others have done, L77 engine built after Jan/Feb 2011 (and I don't mean the cars build date either) there is greater success in this noise not being present due to the change in internal parts from the States.

Check your engine build date which is located on the inside edge of the passenger rocker cover inline with the first coil pack.

 

[Mitch-VE6LTR]

I'll check that out thanks mate, mines a march 2011 build well the car is.. As I said the nock isn't bad it's quite faint and goes away with in about say litrally a minute or two. So it doesn't really bother me Holden is doing an oil consumption test just to be sure but it's not using any oil so I don't care as long as it doesn't sound like "old slapper" my VT 5.7 which was f**ked rattled its ass off!

 

[SSVAGON]

After my experience with this problem. I have been told by a professional engine builder these engines do have "degree" of cold start engine noise that is normal. This noise is due to the alloy blocks are noisy due to the acoustic qualities of aluminium.

HOWEVER, I was also told.

This cold start knock should only last a few seconds and/or should not that noticeable, NOT sit there clacking like an old CAT diesel engine for some time.

I understand "some" (not all) of the engine blocks have bores that are out of round or have a taper. This causes the piston to rock/slap when cold due to excessive clearance between the bore and piston. If the bore is badly out of round the worse the noise is.

The more the piston rocks over time, the piston also develops a taper and the noise gets worse and worse.

I understand there has been an updated AFM lifters and pistons fitted to the newer L77 (Jan/Feb 2011) to reduce the piston rock sound and lifter clack. This is why I suspect this forum is not full of this problem with the series 2 L77.

Our Series II built in Nov 2010 has the older version of the L77 (July 2010 engine) as it came from the factory with the old style L76 AFM lifters. Our lifters were replaced and did not fix the problem. Further to this I think pulling the heads off to fix problems like noisy lifters does not help the bores from going out of round. These alloy block’s need to be under tension or torque to make the bores round. So much so they have a toque plate fitted if they are to be bored or honed. The only way to fix this problem correctly is to bore the block “under tension” to make the bores round and replace the pistons with larger after market pistons. Holden however will not warrant an aftermarket part.


Our car goes in next week to have it assessed again after the engine was removed, stripped down the pistons replaced and coated with something like Teflon. This lasted about 1000ks with no noise, now the noise is back.:ranting:

I suspect this is due to the bores being badly out of round and has taken the coating off the pistons already. The only solution to my “excessive” engine noise would be to completely replace the engine with a new 2011 built L77.

 

[Mitch-VE6LTR]

^^^^ what he said! Mine is exactly that goes away litrally after a minute or so and the sound is very minimal.

 

[Mitch-VE6LTR]

Just another thing I wonder why we never hear of this problem with the alloytecs?