Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

how much to tune a ssv manual?

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by RoaringSky, May 22, 2013.

  1. WazzaV8

    WazzaV8 New Member

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    Esperance
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV Redline
    Get the Pacemakers, they come with an extension O2 lead and they don't make the check engine light come on. Also if you buy a VCM OTR from eBay it's cheaper to buy the MAFless one as they are the same price and go to VCM website and buy the MAF conversion kit, you save about $100 and you can just fit the MAFless kit when/if you get a tune. they say it take 500-1000km after fitting OTR to get the full benefits.
     
  2. AirStrike

    AirStrike Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,158
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2003
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    91' VN SS
    PIR4TE is right, the car might make good gains but in the real world not 270rwkw when the figure was gained using a correction factor based on 0% humidity and 10 degrees.
     
  3. yxyx64

    yxyx64 New Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    nsw
    Members Ride:
    Kia turbo + Holden badge, Chev badge in Texas
    I am sad that I cbf getting into this but the pirate bloke has used pe and dyno in the same sentence , as well as numbers not at 14.7 when on the dyno. I would think his veracity would be good (or at least worth checking).

    when your thing goes pe it takes much more than headers and an air filter to go lean. Holden makes pe very rich and then for good measure does a quick blm check to see if it is above the "zero" (non adjusted value) to get it even richer by using the number above "the zero" to mod the pe (from the data point when you go into pe).

    I have to go now and save some lions in india.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  4. 6LWAGON

    6LWAGON New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV SPORTWAGON
    Hey mate, I had my exhaust on for over a year before I decided to give her a tune.
    It has extractors and a 3" KPM system fitted.
    The engine light came on after 3 days and my mechanic cleared that for me and never came on again.
    When we ran the car on the dyno, untuned, with exhaust was an extra 25 hp and after tuning gained another 35 hp.


    Just so you know it's a L98, 6 speed manual.
    I hope this helps.
     
  5. RoaringSky

    RoaringSky New Member

    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV MY9.5 Manual Sedan
    Yeah righto, cheers 6Lwagon. Looks like it is ok to drive around with the Engine light on then. I have a mate with a scan tool which can clear it. I also have a OBDII dongle and I can use it on the diagnostic port and use my phone to link up with it via BT and use a code clearer app. I wonder if that will be ok too...
     
  6. RoaringSky

    RoaringSky New Member

    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV MY9.5 Manual Sedan
    I have been told here on this forum that I can run my L98 on 91ron if it is not tuned...or is it wrong? The car can run on that yukky E85 or something as stated in the user manual and inside the fuel flap? Is that like E10 fuel? I wouldn't touch that one though. I have been driving around for 6 months now with 91 ron, no probs, even on 40C days, but I don't hoon during those days. I rarely push my car anyway, only when needed.

    With the type of brand of the tuning tool, I really didn't pay much attention to it as I switched off completely as soon as he mentioned that it will cost me $1190 to tune my street car with min mods. Value wise, I cant justify it so I didn't listen to any details of the rest of his speech. All I know is that it's a piggy back style computer that offers 3 settings and I can also revert back to factory setting if I want to...yeah, I so need those fancy features as I run my car on ethanol with massive cams, blowers and semi slicks etc...not!

    Look, $500-900 is a decent price to me after reading so many pages of info, and that will be for a flash tune yeah? Not with a piggy back fuel computer? Anything beyond that gets too dear and seems like an overkill which doesn't make sense for my street car with minimum mods.
     
  7. WazzaV8

    WazzaV8 New Member

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    Esperance
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV Redline
    Yeah, it's like E10 but 75 better, the V8 Super cars run on E85, it burns cleaner and is similar octane level of 110. I'm in WA and just we could get it, when I went to Holden's and asked them when it's coming to WA they asked me what it was.
    E85....85% Ethanol 15% Premium. E10.......10% Ethanol 90% Premium

    As for running on 91, what's your owners manual say? Remember 91ron is Regular Unleaded and 95 & 98ron is Premium Unleaded. I don't think Holden own shares in BP so wouldn't recommend the dearer fuel if it wasn't the best for your car.
     
  8. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    AWOL with Ari
    Members Ride:
    Black Pearl
    Correct. It will run fine on many combustible fluids including 91 petrol but retards power and economy to buggery and with mods, load, heat like you say... 91 is just not good for your engine.
    Specifically L98 is not low compression like the first mid 80s-mid 90s unleaded designs, eg our pistons are hypereutectic (stronger than cast but brittle), and are particularly sensitive to the point of destruction under knock.
    [​IMG]
    A lot of engineering goes into enabling Gen IV engines to literally run on crap, but use higher octane 95+ or e85 ideally.

    Best fuel for our cars is e85, and its tax free, but the surprise is 95+ (ethanol mix) is also good value and will not kill our V8 watch this http://www.ozgarage.com.au/season1-video/episode-10-now-online-the-fuel-test you are not alone thinking e85 is crap, but really have the rating scale arse about.

    In the Barossa we enjoy a piggy back style sandwich called an "Elton", hope that helps, cheers.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  9. AirStrike

    AirStrike Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,158
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2003
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    91' VN SS
    Wish there was more E85 near me, free 50rwkw!
     
  10. Heron SSV

    Heron SSV Active Member

    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Location:
    Central Coast
    Members Ride:
    2009 NT Pajero Exceed, 1984 VK SL
    i didnt think you could run E85 in the older VE's as the newer ones had a different fuel system setup to cope with the extra ethanol content and the extra fuel it uses. can anyone clarify this?

    you can use any type of unleaded fuel, but it'll run better on premium and you'll use less as well. there isnt really that much difference dollar wise when you compare cost vs economy
     
  11. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    AWOL with Ari
    Members Ride:
    Black Pearl
    Apparently the OP has an MY9.5 L98 with flex fuel, I checked into that.

    Agreed, that video I posted is worth watching when you get the chance.
    A lot of people are put off e85 because basically it takes on moisture and you need a stainless / plastic fuel system so not be affected by scouring in the lines or rust through condensation. Can't use e85 in a boat or plane!
    I've read conflicting reports that the ECM calculates flex fuel calibrations without the special flex fuel sensor as well, but conversions sell it?
    Don't listen to the numbnuts at servos who warn "you'll use 25-30% more" as it really depends on how and where you drive - I get 100km less per tank - still works out cheaper for me - $10.45 per 100km versus $15 on 98.
    P100 is the best in dollar terms for mileage / tank, very close to e85 in performance.
    Only dramas I've found with condensation in ethanol is buying a mild steel catback that's turned religious (holy) in just over two years, and when you mash the pedal in winter morning or night there's a high dewpoint a cloud forms for about two metres behind the car like Batmobile's smokescreen generator and you have to put the rear wiper on.
    United will give you close the 85% alcohol whereas Caltex is *up to* 75% I've found (I make wine so I pack a hydrometer).
    Oh and if you are going to the snow it makes it difficult to start, then runs like a 'vette wagon with a SuperChiller.
    [​IMG]
    The whole e85 thang helps get approval from Domestic Finance Ministry as well..
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  12. Ian Johnston

    Ian Johnston Active Member

    Messages:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Location:
    Mount Gambier, SA
    Members Ride:
    2015 Subaru Forester, XR6 turbo ute.
    I see a lot of the OPs problem is himself. Complained about the tune going to cost $1190, but has no idea what he is getting for that money, as he "switched off" when a price was mentioned by the tuner.. Then he agrees with the people that give him the answers he "wants to hear", not the correct info.

    Epic fail IMHO.
     
  13. MYVESSV8

    MYVESSV8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,808
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Location:
    Brisbane/GoldCoast
    Members Ride:
    VE 6LT M6
    Hey PIR4TE, have heard and then spoke to a sponsor who has-call it "converted a series one SS L98 to run on E85,"now this being said the guy who had it done reckons go for it so am consdering, have spoken to walkinshaw here in queensland and they are waiting for ugrades to vcm suite (i think thats right) so they can also provide this, as there is 2 tuning software type packages (most common i have found) hp and vcm (please correct me if I'm wrong), cost is about $1400 have to check may have been a fraction cheaper, your opinions on this ?? at present I have tune otr exhaust etc and mine goes like a scolded cat, the difference i have found is the drivability, and i gained overall about 35kw if i remenber correctly need to find my dyno sheet (its only a number on a dyno) proof is now how it drives and worth the spend I think, so if a cashed up person is not happy with his possible gains who cares, but many a retuned commodore owner is very very pleased I know i am just my 2C worth
     
  14. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    AWOL with Ari
    Members Ride:
    Black Pearl
    OK OP, you'll want to hear this, I surrender, Arr!
    Here's the correct info*
    Get a reputable $500-800 full flash tune right now, with mods, it is false economy otherwise.
    Don't fret about losing the virtues of the stock tune as you have plenty power and economy left on the table with your motor's potential and the flex fuel system revised with a full tune will clearly show the difference in power and economy at the bowser.

    *OP divulged critical points over the thread like doesn't know / want piggy back (may have been an AutoCal piggy on the OBDII), but doesn't need much out of the ordinary DD, has a powerful manual flex fuel variant, would like to continue option to run **** fuel, and lets just say its safe to presume he's not sleeping with or related to Gina Rhinehart.

    OP I commend your canniness and wish you the best of luck getting practical value from myriad rogue tuners like I said, temper technical claims which border on 'truly fantastic' with a healthy disdain.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  15. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    AWOL with Ari
    Members Ride:
    Black Pearl
    Technicians have used three brands(?) to peek, tweak and fiddle under my hood I'm ashamed to admit, and every month there's more tinkering tools advertised in Hot Rod and GM High Tech Performance, etc.
    AFAIK (NB I make wine for a living) the system with ongoing development of e85, m85, and p-series fuels is EFIlive, and I know certain Walkinshaw franchises are active in its development. BTW I think HP Tuners owns VCM Suite or something like that because it is the same system, so there are two main platforms, three brand names bandied about.
    You mustn't have to replace any/much mechanical gear at all?
    That's a bit of a shock. I'm unclear about your car and if it needs different tank and lines - but I dont think so - also flex fuel cars have upgraded fuel pump (although conflicting reports about injectors), and the flex fuel photometric device that was $1500 standalone at one point! So all that plus full custom e85 mafless dyno tune is insanely good value... be weary about hidden cost.
    I'll PM you the EFIlive dude at Walkinshaw who keeps my tunes up to date.
    That price? I wish I could spend just $1400 to get 6-10% (18-35rwkw your mods), say +20rwkw for easy calcs is $70/rwkw. Also depending on where and how you drive you could save $35-50/week in fuel cost.
    OFC do your own calcs but for a nice upgrade and update your car will pay for itself with a grin at the bowser within the year (tell the Missus six mths).
    Briso has about six Caltex with it on tap, one Soith at Granite Belt in Warwick, another north at Bundaberg but the new United at Arundel serves wicked full strength alcohol just a short deviation from the F3. P100 is a blast too and that's all the way up NSW coast, make a point of getting the real United stuff at poor old Kempsey ghost town, last e85 outta Sydney is Gosford.
    Nice one!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  16. RoaringSky

    RoaringSky New Member

    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV MY9.5 Manual Sedan
    Look, thanks for the info u guys r providing me, I'm really grateful for that, but there is no need for sarcasm and flaming towards a L98 new comer.

    If there is a point u would like to correct me, eg. type of fuel I really should use, or type of tune and its relative price, just enforce ur view point with its reasoning, I am more than willing to take them onboard since I'm here to learn. I do hold my own financial thresholds and expectations but again, with ur valid reasoning and persuasion, they can be altered accordingly.



    On the other hand, I did quite a bit of research here on this forum before I got this car and realised that lot of ppl use 91 ron and it is just fine. I drove the car with 4 tanks of 91 ron then 4 tanks of 98 ron when I got it to test the potential power increase and extra milage, yet the there was no noticeable power gain and the fuel consumption remained the same, 12.5L/100km for where and how I drive. Hence I kept on using 91. Now please advise I really shouldn't.
     
  17. WazzaV8

    WazzaV8 New Member

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    Esperance
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV Redline
    What you really should use is what you have been told to use in your owners manual, they don't suggest that for no reason at all but having said that its really up to you as I won't be buying your car when you upgrade and I'm sure any damage your doing wont become apparent for a few years yet.
     
  18. Slick6

    Slick6 New Member

    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    PERTH WA
    Members Ride:
    Phantom SSV
    The manual for the L98 says to use 91. It then says using 95 or higher may provide a small improvement in performance and fuel economy.

    In saying that, go for at least a 95 once you have done your mods. Your car will thank you in the long run.
     
  19. Johnsy

    Johnsy ★★★★★

    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Location:
    C/Town
    Members Ride:
    VF SS Wagon & VF SV6 Ute
    If the cost of fuel is an issue don't buy a V8 to begin with.... everyone should use the best they can all the time, that's why my car only drinks 98........
     
  20. Vz SS

    Vz SS New Member

    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Location:
    ACT
    Members Ride:
    Ve SSV Redline
    Agree 100% I run only 98 or e85 in saying that e85 is only 1.29 a litre but worse on fuel also more performance
    As you stated if fuel is to expensive for you don't buy a v8
     

Share This Page