How's your 4l60e going?

[Pollushon]

No no no, you have miss understood what I said. Everybody knows the power button changes the shift point in the auto box, but The1 (again think it was him, but not 100% sure) said that the power button actually changes the engines ECU slightly as well and advances timing or something similar.
The annoying thing is that I can't find that thread.

Trust me, I was in that thread. I was directed to PCM Hacking, I went, I saw, I read. I was wrong.

 

[TI3VOM]

Trust me, I was in that thread. I was directed to PCM Hacking, I went, I saw, I read. I was wrong.

Calm down, go back & check my post, I corrected my information after I read your post.

Was there a point in that thread where someone with credibility said that it changes the ECU? I'm sure that comment was made, I would love to go and re-read what I miss read lol.

 

[Pollushon]

I'm calm as man but I don't move backwards. It's a common misconception, so it never hurts to reiterate. I thought it for a long time myself.

 

[HSV08]

I have the pcmhacking nvram board and associated software for rt tuning my vt senator and the the pwr switch has nothing to do with the engine ecu only the trans. The only program the can run switchable maps is 12p (map based bins) where you can alter map a or ( you cod have one for a street tune running 98 and map b for running e85 for instance). But it still needs to be wired to a pin on the ecu to a switch. I think they were looking at bridging it to the PWR button so map a could be used in ECON mode and map b IN PWR mode. The trans control and engine control work independant of each other tune wise. The trans can be tuned in either mode. Eco for sedate driving and PWR for spirited. What ever suits the owners taste. But like it's been said it's not how hard it changes but how quickly. There is a limit though. More line pressure can only be used so far before having to be mechanically intervened.


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[Immortality]

As far as I know, changing between eco and power mode only changes the transmission settings in the tune.

There are guys like The1 who can re-write code so tunes can do so much more but if we are talking about a standard tune that it's only the trans settings that get altered.

One thing I hate about the stock tunes is it going into 4th gear at about 50km/h YUK. I changed mine so it stays in 3rd up until about 70km/h but it will lock the converter in 3rd and used no more fuel that it going into 4th (cruises very similar to a manual trans in 4th gear as both are 1:1 ratio with the converter locked). On the flip side, when I do give it a bit of gas it will unlock the converter and get going rather than having to first kick down a gear. IMHO the V6 factory transmission settings are totally wrong (unless your only concern is emissions). Small engines need more revs to create torque and prevent the engine labouring.

Power mode is the easiest way to increase line pressures a little as well as slight alterations to shift points (increased RPM's). If you want to do it properly get a tune done with increased line pressures. The other beef I have is the factory service interval for the automatic transmission. I'm fairly damn sure that my owners manual says 80,000km's which IMO is far to long. New trans fluid is almost pink in colour, once it starts to get to a dark red colour it is already getting well past it best, if it smells burn or it's brown, dump it quick. I always suggest using a white paper towel to check the trans fluid so you can see its true colour. Also smell it. If a trans has been real hot it will have burn the fluid and you will smell it.

The missus trans is still going @ 23x,xxxkm's. It's been slipping since before 100K km's but only if you give it stick and for some stupid reason when you get to higher altitudes??? (like going skiing up Mt Ruapehu).

One thing I did notice is that when fitting larger TB's you do need to increase the line pressures as you are making more power at a lower TPS setting. TPS Vs road speed determines line pressures. Factory line pressures are enough to prevent major slippage but enough slippage to smooth out gear changes. Slippage = heat and wear. Heat kills auto's as we all know.

I also don't believe the theory of the factory inline radiator trans cooler creating any effective heating of the trans fluid during cold start/warm up cycle. When you start a cold engine all the coolant in the engine cycles around the engine for the first couple of minutes, no coolant makes it to the radiator, when the thermostat does start to open, it only opens a little at first (thermostats open/close progressively to control temps) so only a small amount of hot coolant getting into the radiator which cools down fairly quickly, and the engine has to heat any coolant coming from the radiator which is effectively still at ambient temperature until it's cycled through the engine. The transmission fluid that goes to the trans cooler comes out of the converter, the hottest part of the transmission.

There are a number of guys who have bypassed the factory inline radiator cooler and only run the external cooler. They have reported more stable transmission temperatures so there is some food for thought. My own personal experience seems to back this up. I still have the factory setup (internal to external factory fitted cooler) I also have a trans temp gauge. Trans temps are generally fairly stable unless giving it a lot of stick. However been stuck in traffic the transmission temps slowly climb, the engine temps are as expected, they rise and fall with the thermofan coming on and off but the transmission temps slowly keep creeping up. The only time this doesn't occur is when I switch the aircon on and the thermofan stays on a lot longer (engine temps pulls down to the normal running temp/thermostat temp) and the transmission temp slowly comes down. Once you get moving fast enough to get some decent airflow through the front of the car the trans temps slowly start to normalise but it takes a long time.

175° F = 80° C
220° F = 104° C

On a stock V6 you run a 196° F thermostat and the thermo fan comes on @ 104° C and turns off 100° C. Hotter than the ideal transmission fluid temps recommended for a long trouble free life......

 

[HSV08]

Good right up. That's another thing is tcc lockup. My cammed 355 locked the converter just under the cam so would kick back and forth. Tuned it out too engage a few kilometers higher and it no longer bucks. I can cruise around town at 60kmh locked up no worries. Put your foot into it in 3rd and it'll just pull. I've set it too unlock at 50% tps as I hated the lock and unlock (drops around 1000rpm when lockup occures due to 3G stall.)


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[Pollushon]

I also don't believe the theory of the factory inline radiator trans cooler creating any effective heating of the trans fluid during cold start/warm up cycle. When you start a cold engine all the coolant in the engine cycles around the engine for the first couple of minutes, no coolant makes it to the radiator, when the thermostat does start to open, it only opens a little at first (thermostats open/close progressively to control temps) so only a small amount of hot coolant getting into the radiator which cools down fairly quickly, and the engine has to heat any coolant coming from the radiator which is effectively still at ambient temperature until it's cycled through the engine. The transmission fluid that goes to the trans cooler comes out of the converter, the hottest part of the transmission.

I think this is true to a degree, but I've found since I reco'd my entire cooling system, I'm at op temp in a few minutes or a couple of kms from home. The rad is pretty warm/hot not long after. Compared to relying on the friction dynamics of the trans itself to warm up the fluid it's a no brainer to externally assist it any way you can, even if it's not an awesome method, I mean there's not many auto's from the manufacturer that don't run through the rad. Well I don't know of any.

 

[Immortality]

My understanding is that the majority of the heat in the transmission fluid comes from the fluid coupling which is what a torque converter is. Generally speaking the transmission shouldn't be slipping unless it's going through a gear change so no real heat from that avenue. You will also get some heating from the compression factor of the fluid.

the thing is though, from a cold start, the only heat in the trans fluid is coming from the trans, As you say, it may only take a few minutes, but until the radiator is up to operating temp it provides no heat and the trans fluid will already be warm. Once it's warm I would rather not be introducing more heat. I might check one of my old data logs and see how the trans temp runs Vs engine temp during a cold start.

 

[lowandslow]

On my 5L VQ i'm running an external transcooler which is plumbed inline after the factory transcooler in the radiator.
After an average drive about town which would let things warm up i used an infrared temp gun to check it's effectiveness. There was a 30 degree difference from the inlet to the outlet sides of the cooler. This was only measured for shits and giggle value and the car had been sitting for about 15min already so i guess the benefits would be greater when it's moving.

 

[VRSenator065]

Really good info above which pretty much is as I understand it. Heat kills auto's.

Also frequently changing the oil is the cheapest insurance you will ever buy for anything that relies on oil, so thats engine, trans, diff etc. There are upgrade parts for just about every weakness in a 4L60/65 (there are lots of them, like input drum, shell, clutches etc), from guys like TCI or Sonnax.

The upside of the 60/65 is they are small and light so they don't rob power, the downside is they are small and light so not physically as strong as say a T400. (cant have both I guess) Also having an overdrive 4th gives you more options with diff ratio and still being able to cruise on the open road.

Btw, I thought in the later 4spd auto Commodores they are actually 4L65e's aren't they with a 3 piece case,and the 5 pinion planetaries, whereas the 4L60e has a single piece case and 4 pinion planetaries?

My home built 4L65e has held together so far behind an LSx454, only done about 250km's though