JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Sabbath']

Why don’t you do the maths and answer your own question? It’s not my job to prove your own talking points and thought bubbles for you.

Here’s a hint, details for the (rough) battery costs costs can be obtained from looking up the Hornsdale Power Reserve (the big Tesla battery in SA) and the (exact) power consumption data can be obtained from the AEMO’s website. Off you go then! Put together a back of the envelope calculation like I did for nuclear! Or is it beyond your capabilities?

Awww. I touched a nerve, now you're getting abusive.

Using a home battery to charge a car battery is a stupid idea. Ideally most storage will be grid storage (pumped hydro, grid scale batteries, hydrogen turbines, the aforementioned graphite blocks I posted a video about, etc).

Seems you're the one who floated the idea of grid scale batteries into this conversation. So I asked a question on it. It's not up to me to prove YOUR talking points.


But, just to help you out I went to the AEMO app and it says that in S.A over the past 3 months battery storage contributed about 2% into the states energy mix.

 

[AirStrike]

NUCLEAR IS NOT CHEAP!

You will never get cheap power from a centrally controlled grid, which nuclear would be.

Aren't you always saying how much better off we would be with government controlled assets rather than leaving it to the free market?

 

[07GTS]

melb is getting the biggest battery ever made and it will support 1 million homes for 30 mins.. so in winter when we have 12 hour nights with no solar and say a wind shortage we will need 48 batteries for Victoria, this isn't including industry so ill only add more batteries to the mix and those aren't cheap 300mill each ? then the next day they also have to power the grid and recharge for the next night... the biggest issue with renewables is u always need way more cos they aren't reliable based on weather

 

[the_boozer]

Does anyone know what the batterys at the old Hazelwood site actually do? Apart from buying power when its cheap? How long will they supply the grid for apart from paying electricians shitloads to install them what do they do? 2 coal fired powerstations are with in 20 k's of them running 24 7. The blackstart generators are about 3 k's away. So what do the batterys do?
How long can a battery supply the grid for piss in the pool. Ill bet you at least one of them burns before Yallorn closes. How does a mob that has no conveyor expiecene or tools to join a conveyor belt get a contrat to maintain a mine? Sabotaging the power industrys they are.

 

[chrisp]

melb is getting the biggest battery ever made and it will support 1 million homes for 30 mins.. so in winter when we have 12 hour nights with no solar and say a wind shortage we will need 48 batteries for Victoria, this isn't including industry so ill only add more batteries to the mix and those aren't cheap 300mill each ? then the next day they also have to power the grid and recharge for the next night... the biggest issue with renewables is u always need way more cos they aren't reliable based on weather

With these large scale systems, you need to do a proper statistical analysis to work out the benefits properly. For example, yep it mightn’t be windy now, or in a particularly area, but across the whole grid the chances of no wind anywhere for an extended period of time are pretty minimal. Not impossible, but not likely either. It’s a bit like sizing an ambulance service - if we all called for an ambulance at the same time, we’ll soon find out that there isn’t enough. But do we need an ambulance per person? ‘Reliability’ is actually a statistical measure in both cases. And don’t think for one minute that the same statistical reliability issues don’t apply to coal and gas powered generators. Coal actually needs to predict the demand hours ahead to try and get it right. Also, again, if we all turned on all our electrical appliances at the same time, we’ll crash the grid - regardless of the source of the generation.

I do find it perplexing that some insist that the new renewable generators be absolutely reliable, yet the old systems that they are comparing them to aren’t.

 

[07GTS]

With these large scale systems, you need to do a proper statistical analysis to work out the benefits properly. For example, yep it mightn’t be windy now, or in a particularly area, but across the whole grid the chances of no wind anywhere for an extended period of time are pretty minimal. Not impossible, but not likely either. It’s a bit like sizing an ambulance service - if we all called for an ambulance at the same time, we’ll soon find out that there isn’t enough. But do we need an ambulance per person? ‘Reliability’ is actually a statistical measure in both cases. And don’t think for one minute that the same statistical reliability issues don’t apply to coal and gas powered generators. Coal actually needs to predict the demand hours ahead to try and get it right. Also, again, if we all turned on all our electrical appliances at the same time, we’ll crash the grid - regardless of the source of the generation.

I do find it perplexing that some insist that the new renewable generators be absolutely reliable, yet the old systems that they are comparing them to aren’t.

KISS method works well and how many failure points are in a 100% renewable grid ? wind is a point, sun is a point, all the extra thousands of km transmission line are extra failure points, batteries fail point, also nuclear is all on a single site, renewables use up a massive area land and sea to do the exact sand thing, we have thousands of years of fuel for the whole world in nuclear and if everyone done it then it will be cheap with zero emissions

 

[Immortality]

Someone should start a pole, when will Nuclear power actually turn on a light in Aussie? 2030, 2035, 2040, 2045...never

 

[chrisp]

KISS method works well and how many failure points are in a 100% renewable grid ? wind is a point, sun is a point, all the extra thousands of km transmission line are extra failure points, batteries fail point, also nuclear is all on a single site, renewables use up a massive area land and sea to do the exact sand thing, we have thousands of years of fuel for the whole world in nuclear and if everyone done it then it will be cheap with zero emissions

So one nuclear generator fails and…. ?

Or one battery, solar panel, wind turbine fails and… business as usual.

A distributed system is much much more reliable than a centralised system. That’s why the www was invented.

 

[figjam]

Someone should start a pole, when will Nuclear power actually turn on a light in Aussie? 2030, 2035, 2040, 2045...never

Not within my remaining lifetime, so I don't give a flying **** about the timing.

Can't have nuclear .............. 'cos Chernobyl and Fukushima.
Can't have coal ......... 'cos climate change and CO2 and hole in the ozone layer.
Can't have gas ............. 'cos Albo, Chris Bowen and Greenies say so.
Can't have hectares of solar .............. 'cos the grass, the trees, the sheep and cattle.
Can't have wind farms .............. 'cos the parrots, the whales, the fish, blight on the landscape.

What can we have ? ......... more outraged demonstrations about whatever we don't agree with.
Grim Reaper, take me before all this happens.

 

[07GTS]

So one nuclear generator fails and…. ?

Or one battery, solar panel, wind turbine fails and… business as usual.

A distributed system is much much more reliable than a centralised system. That’s why the www was invented.

and nuclear fails all the time ? it has its safeguards, the future is nuclear we just have a habit of going the long way to get there fossil fuels and renewable could have all been avoided if we went nuclear back in the 60's the technology now would be so much further and then there is the ability to use up 99% of the uranium and the rest is iron which sits for a decade then it's radioactive free so zero waste