JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Jesterarts]

bludging BOAT PEOPLE, and diggers dying in Afganastan, this is Johnny Cowards legarcy.

ROFL, well this shows you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Granted, Howard got us into the **** that is Afganistan, but in HIS time in office, 6 diggers died. 34 have died in the time Labor KRudd and Dillard have been running the show.

And boat people, you REALLY need to look up some stats before posting. In Howards last year, 25 boat people arrived. First year of Labor 1033 arrived after they ditched Howards policies.

In the time Labor has been in office they have had about 5000 MORE boat people arrivals than Howard did over his entire run as PM.

In other news, wtf is a "legarcy"?

 

[DAKSTER]

It's also easy to dismiss debt levels as being "manageable". As much of the world has worked out lately, it easily steps over the line into the "un manageable" category. The problem we have is now a sustained trend of increasing debt. A year or two in the red is ok. Now we are over 5 and at best this year we will tread water, but that's only achieved by cooking the books. Surely a trend of real, small reductions of debt must be achieved. Even the Gillard's own budget papers forcast debt levels to hit $249.7 billion in 2016. Note that we have a debt limit of $250billion.

The problem with the left, is whilst you are all crapping on about how "manageable" it is, and there is nothing to worry about, the national credit card bill just keeps climbing and climbing. Truly, I don't think anybody realizes the urgency of the situation. :bang:

Reaper

Perhaps some perspective would be useful. Is it really the government doing all the spending here? The states owe just as much collectively as the federal government, but even counting all forms of government debt, a quick mental calculation says that the governments collectively are responsible for about 15% of Australian debt, and the federal government accounts for about half of that.


"Truly, I don't think anybody realizes the urgency of the situation."


Truly, I think too many of you are sucked in by your own rhetoric. Australia has among the best financial bottom lines in the world. This is an indisputable FACT. Our economy is the envy of most if not all of the western world.

The federal government already owes under 8% (again, just a quick mental calculation) of the total national debt with the much vaunted $250 billion figure you keep throwing around. How many more cuts to services, and lack of infrastructure creation and maintenance, will you be willing to endure to lower that a few more points?


The telling figure is household debt, which accounts for triple the total of all government debt (without including housing!!).

Perhaps, instead of blaming governments, we need to look at our own personal debt levels, and the 'buy now, pay later' attitude towards personal finance that so many Australians take.


Australian Debt Clock 11am 12.10.12

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[Sabbath']

bludging BOAT PEOPLE, and diggers dying in Afganastan, this is Johnny Cowards legarcy.

You're poorly misinformed. But that's ok, because you probably don't know what that word means. As Jester said about when Howard left office. All things that Labor has failed to address and have let get worse. Now let's start a small list of labor and their legacy:

Insulation Scheme
Carbon Tax
Mining Tax
Peter Slipper
Craig Thompson
Malaysia
Boats
More Boats
School Laptop Program...


Sent from here, so you can read it there via iPhone.

 

[Reaper]

I do agree that the muck raking about Abbott is a smoke and mirrors approach of someone clutching at straws. But as a deeply religious person I would say there might be some sexism/mysoginy (sic?). It happens with the devoutly faithful sometimes. I recall seeing an interview on TV between Bobbie and Brian Houston of Hill$ong. She was so submissive and subservient it made me feel really sad for her. When the news ltd papers reported Mrs Abbotts story I got pretty much the same vibe.

OTOH Gillards partner has completely been pussy-whipped. This is just as sad.

This whole "Abbott the misogynist" thing is a complete farce. If Gillard, Roxon, Plibersek, Maklin & co were sooooo offended by Abbott and his various comments over the years why did each and every one of them vote in support of Slipper and the text messages?? Why was it that Roxon who now it turns out knew of those texts for at least a month sought to settle the matter immediately so that the evidence would stay confidential? The only conclusion I can draw is yet again, Gillard and the ALP are demonstrating that they will do *anything* to cling onto power no-matter what the repercussions are for the country.


Reaper

 

[Jesterarts]

You're poorly misinformed. But that's ok, because you probably don't know what that word means. As Jester said about when Howard left office. All things that Labor has failed to address and have let get worse. Now let's start a small list of labor and their legacy:

Insulation Scheme
Carbon Tax
Mining Tax
Peter Slipper
Craig Thompson
Malaysia
Boats
More Boats
School Laptop Program...


Sent from here, so you can read it there via iPhone.

You forgot the NBN.

 

[Reaper]

ROFL, well this shows you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Granted, Howard got us into the **** that is Afganistan, but in HIS time in office, 6 diggers died. 34 have died in the time Labor KRudd and Dillard have been running the show.

And boat people, you REALLY need to look up some stats before posting. In Howards last year, 25 boat people arrived. First year of Labor 1033 arrived after they ditched Howards policies.

In the time Labor has been in office they have had about 5000 MORE boat people arrivals than Howard did over his entire run as PM.

In other news, wtf is a "legarcy"?

The foray into Afganistan has had bi-partisan support from the day dot and continues to do so. Unfortunately for those concerned, the vast vast majority of Australia's public will not ever know why, or feel the benefits of the action over there. Had we not gone, many would have had the direct result of in-action. Makes it a hard war to fight when it comes to public perception.

Perhaps some perspective would be useful. Is it really the government doing all the spending here? The states owe just as much collectively as the federal government, but even counting all forms of government debt, a quick mental calculation says that the governments collectively are responsible for about 15% of Australian debt, and the federal government accounts for about half of that.


"Truly, I don't think anybody realizes the urgency of the situation."


Truly, I think too many of you are sucked in by your own rhetoric. Australia has among the best financial bottom lines in the world. This is an indisputable FACT. Our economy is the envy of most if not all of the western world.

Yep, no argument there. The problem is the trend.

The federal government already owes under 8% (again, just a quick mental calculation) of the total national debt with the much vaunted $250 billion figure you keep throwing around. How many more cuts to services, and lack of infrastructure creation and maintenance, will you be willing to endure to lower that a few more points?

Willing to - probably nothing. Have to - well you have to live within your means otherwise your children and their children will have far worse in the future. Just look at much of Europe and NA. The bottom line is that we have to cut expenses such that our expenses are trending slightly below income. Nobody wants to cut services. It's just common sense. On average we have spent around 2% more than our income for the last 4 - 5 years. That has to be reversed. Nothing to do with wants - it's common sense.

The telling figure is household debt, which accounts for triple the total of all government debt (without including housing!!).
Perhaps, instead of blaming governments, we need to look at our own personal debt levels, and the 'buy now, pay later' attitude towards personal finance that so many Australians take.

Yet since the GFC, Australians have been saving at levels not seen for decades. Thus the community seem to be bright enough to figure it out, pitty the ALP aren't! So to answer your question - we are!

Australians saving more of disposable income than they have for 20 years | News.com.au
Australians saving more and more | Savingsaccount | InfoChoice


Reaper

 

[monkeys437]

I do agree that the muck raking about Abbott is a smoke and mirrors approach of someone clutching at straws. But as a deeply religious person I would say there might be some sexism/mysoginy (sic?). It happens with the devoutly faithful sometimes. I recall seeing an interview on TV between Bobbie and Brian Houston of Hill$ong. She was so submissive and subservient it made me feel really sad for her. When the news ltd papers reported Mrs Abbotts story I got pretty much the same vibe.

I agree mate, I've met religious women who seem to have Misogynistic views on their place in the world and there's no talking sense into them and I sense that mentality in Abbott. Of course this is just my opinion and I don't think its malicious on Abbotts part, just the different to how I see things. But I don't think Abbott is sexist or oppressive to women in his politics at all. His maternity leave scheme is extremely generous (maybe even too generous) and if there's one important policy area which promotes women in the workforce a good maternity leave scheme would be right up there.

I think the Labor Abbott scare tactics are way off the mark though. He's not going to banish women to the kitchen, issue them with an ironing board and become legal guardian of their wombs.

 

[304runner]

123 pages of complaining.

No wonder this Country is screwed.

 

[Fekason]

I tend to avoid getting involved in political arguments.

However, I am starting to get annoyed at those commenting that Australia's financial/economic position is the envy of the Western World. Sure it is, but only because the rest are in such a mess. That is relativism at its worst. While I am sure that most would prefer Australia’s position to their own, I doubt that many would have Australia as first preference other than for our resources.

IMHO, the days of Western ascendency are now numbered. Those nations that will be the strong economies of the future would be appalled to be in Australia’s position, especially considering the resources that we have been blessed with.

Maybe, just maybe, this country needs to decide where its future lies. Will it remain tied to the West and Western policies, and accept the same long term decay as the others, even though it might take a little longer. Or should we be looking to be part of the next dominant economy. I suggest that we need to be comparing our position with countries more like China and other Asian countries than PIIGS, USA, UK, France etc.

 

[DAKSTER]

I tend to avoid getting involved in political arguments.

However, I am starting to get annoyed at those commenting that Australia's financial/economic position is the envy of the Western World. Sure it is, but only because the rest are in such a mess. That is relativism at its worst. While I am sure that most would prefer Australia’s position to their own, I doubt that many would have Australia as first preference other than for our resources.

IMHO, the days of Western ascendency are now numbered. Those nations that will be the strong economies of the future would be appalled to be in Australia’s position, especially considering the resources that we have been blessed with.

Maybe, just maybe, this country needs to decide where its future lies. Will it remain tied to the West and Western policies, and accept the same long term decay as the others, even though it might take a little longer. Or should we be looking to be part of the next dominant economy. I suggest that we need to be comparing our position with countries more like China and other Asian countries than PIIGS, USA, UK, France etc.

I also get annoyed at people who say 'under John Howard's leadership, everything was rosy'. Its so easy to forget that John Howard was in power at a time when the entire world was in a boom cycle. Every country in the world with a stable government was doing well at the time. He would have had to be actively trying to make things worse if he were to have made a negative impact.

The current government and Rudd's government were presented with issues that Howard never had to deal with.
Disagree with it as much as you like, but its FACT. Maybe Johnny would have dealt with it better, we will never know, because HE NEVER HAD TO DEAL WITH IT.

I'd prefer to avoid the Chinese model too.. sure they are doing well, but only at the top level. Human rights and living conditions are still terrible. The Chinese economy is certainly growing, but from what level? Its catching up with the rest of the world, and by force of sheer numbers, will be the biggest economy in the world for years to come. On a per capita basis though, its still a bad model. I admit to being leftish in my outlook, but communism is the most UNequal system of government in the world. Their country grows richer, but the vast majority of the lower classes are worse off than ever. Its only those at the top that are doing well.

Are you advocating us moving towards the corruption and human rights abuses of China?