JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Calaber]

Here's another "by-product" of the Carbon Tax.

Local Government tip fees. Our council is one of those determined by the Federal Government to pay substantial fees under Carbon Tax legislation because of the volumes of rubbish dumped or some such crap. There were about six tips in the Sydney/Newcastle region who were affected to varying degrees.

As a consequence, tip fees increased hugely overnight on 1/7/12. A tonne of domestic rubbish went from $195/tonne to $325/tonne. A half filled box trailer cost me just over $100 to dump recently. Fees of this magnitude are bloody obscene and it's little wonder that you see increasing amounts of rubbish on roadsides and down bush tracks.

Just the sort of costs that the "Household Assistance Package" didn't cater for, regardless of household income. Good one, Gillard.

 

[Grennan]

nfi about the maths but yes it's correct in principal. I have some friends in the industry and the cost of refrigerant went thru the roof over night and is *all* directly attributable to the carbon tax.

Reaper

R134a Air Con Gas for example.

Quadrupled in price over night. Its now dieing a very quick death.

 

[vr94ss]

Quadrupled I can believe, even a little more, just not Minux's 2000%. R134 has a GWP rating of 1300 so the carbon tax on it should not raise the price by 2000%. If we take what Minux said above that refrigerant was $8Kg then the increase from the carbon tax would be 1300*23=$29900@tonne div by 1000 to get tax@Kg = $29.9, add that to the original $8 = $37.9@Kg. Percent increase is 29.9/8*100=373% increase. If prices went up more than the carbon tax, some company/companies who sell the stuff need to be reported and investigated.

 

[minux]

Quadrupled I can believe, even a little more, just not Minux's 2000%. R134 has a GWP rating of 1300 so the carbon tax on it should not raise the price by 2000%. If we take what Minux said above that refrigerant was $8Kg then the increase from the carbon tax would be 1300*23=$29900@tonne div by 1000 to get tax@Kg = $29.9, add that to the original $8 = $37.9@Kg. Percent increase is 29.9/8*100=373% increase. If prices went up more than the carbon tax, some company/companies who sell the stuff need to be reported and investigated.

Mate, Labors own modelling showed increases of up to 500% on r22 gas alone.

PS, my original comment was typoed, it should read $28kg not $8.

R404A went up $285kg. This was brought up with the climate change commission etc and was found to be correct. As an idea,, what once cost $4500, now costs around $20,000. Given a smallish cold store holds a tonne of refrigerant...well you do the maths.

I can only report on facts with prices this business faced and on our own budget meetings held by the board that I sit in on. They do not make up airy fairy budgets based on bullshit quotes.

I do find this funny though from the governments website...

“In many cases there are alternatives to synthetic greenhouse gases already in the Australian market. There are also low or non global warming alternatives in prospect for many applications.
Overseas and Australian experience is demonstrating that natural alternatives [to synthetic greenhouse gases] such as ammonia, carbon dioxide and hydrocarbons can be used safely and effectively.”

We have a carbon dioxide tax yet the government claim carbon dioxide to be a natural alternative lol.

 

[vr94ss]

It looks like r22 is supposed to be well on it's way out. It has a GWP of 1700.

Refrigerant R22 - Properties
"R22 is a single hydrochlorofluorocarbon (HCFC) compound. It has low chlorine content and ozone depletion potential and only a modest global warming potential. ODP1) = 0.05 and GWP2) = 1700
R22 can still be used in small heat pump systems, but new systems can not be manufactured for use in the EU after 2003. From 2010 only recycled or saved stocks of R22 can be used. It will no longer be manufactured."

Well if CO2 is an alternative the tax on a tonne of it would only be $23. That's gotta be a plus. The chook factory I worked at in my teens used ammonia for refrigerant. Can older systems be modified to use newer gasses like we had to have done for our car aircons in the past? It seems it would now make commercial sense to use refrigerants with much lower GWP. I'm not a refrigeration mech so don't know what's involved.

edit: This is interesting too regarding r22:
http://www.agcoombs.com.au/news/-/73/refrigerant-price-increases-and-the-carbon-levy-on-refrigerants/

The levy will apply to HFC refrigerants; however will not apply to HCFC refrigerants including R22, which is being phased out by regulation. The cost of R22 has also increased significantly and will continue to escalate due to reducing availability of supply.

 

[c2105026]

LNP released '5 pillar economy' today....

5 pillars, 5 pillars...where have I heard that before?

Oh, thats right 'Allāhu Akbar' or... 'God is Great'. 5 pillars of Islam. Very strange choice of terminology. Does LNP see the economy as sacred now??

The ad was on tonight but I found it extremely vague.

 

[Jesterarts]

*4 pillar economy, but do carry on.

 

[c2105026]

Excerpt from Liberal website

In our first term, we’ll start building a bigger and stronger Five-Pillar Economy:
1) a stronger service economy,
2) a stronger education and information economy,
3) a stronger agricultural industry,
4) a stronger mining industry,
5) stronger manufacturing industries.

so has one pillar been axed as an austerity measure then? lol....

 

[Jesterarts]

Can't find that, only ref I could find to pillars was QLD site and that was 4.

Linky?

 

[Snoz]

I had a new split system put in at home 2 weeks ago.
The guy that did the job was telling me due to the gubments stupid rules there is now a huge black market in refrigerant gases.

He also told me new home builders are being told if they want ducted air in the new house thay have to put solar panels on the roof. To get around this they are putting in the indoor unit and ducting then gyprocking over the air registers. After the ownwer gets the cert of occupancy they go back and cut the holes in the roof and fit the outdoor unit.
Stoopid rules....