Koni / Bilstein Shock Help

[RevNev]

Becuase the quality is the best. They're made in Germany and it's the spring of choice for HSV.

Eibach have never had a Commodore in their possession for the type of R&D they've done with BMW's to manufacture an optimum spring for a particular chassis. Bit hard in Germany to grab a Commodore for a tweak and give it belt around the Nürburgring circuit as they do with easily accessible Euro cars.

The Eibach Commodore kit is a "Joe Blow" specification given to Eibach to manufacturer like the BMW M3/M4 kits Eibach USA supply. If you buy an Eibach Pro kit for an M3/M4 BMW in the USA, you don't get the kit Eibach Germany developed, you get the kit "Joe Blow" specified for Eibach to manufacture. Eibach manufacture an excellent quality spring but how well they work in a Commodore is reliant on "Joe Blow's" impression of what the Commodore chassis needs, not the kit Eibach Germany developed from their own R&D.

The first "Joe Blow" Eibach kit for a VF was a VE kit jacking the VF front end too high. The car understeered like a pig and was a 2.0 seconds slower around Mallala than set of King SSL's. To make a VF turn in and minimise understeer, you can't run the rear ride height lower than the front as it screws up the roll axis of the chassis. Traditionally dumping the rear of a VF, make it understeer and fix it with a big rear sway bar results in nervous unpredictable handling car destined to be wrapped around a tree.

The problem with spring and shock selection for a Commodore is the amount of organisations having a dabble with it, a multitude of "Joe Blows" who claim to know how the VF chassis is best optimised and most don't is the reality of it. They're selling ride heights and seat of the pants stability impressions and throwing in some quality names Eibach, Bilstein, H&R etc sucks more people in to spend more money!

 

[shane_3800]

Eibach have never had a Commodore in their possession for the type of R&D they've done with BMW's to manufacture an optimum spring for a particular chassis. Bit hard in Germany to grab a Commodore for a tweak and give it belt around the Nürburgring circuit as they do with easily accessible Euro cars.

The Eibach Commodore kit is a "Joe Blow" specification given to Eibach to manufacturer like the BMW M3/M4 kits Eibach USA supply. If you buy an Eibach Pro kit for an M3/M4 BMW in the USA, you don't get the kit Eibach Germany developed, you get the kit "Joe Blow" specified for Eibach to manufacture. Eibach manufacture an excellent quality spring but how well they work in a Commodore is reliant on "Joe Blow's" impression of what the Commodore chassis needs, not the kit Eibach Germany developed from their own R&D.

The first "Joe Blow" Eibach kit for a VF was a VE kit jacking the VF front end too high. The car understeered like a pig and was a 2.0 seconds slower around Mallala than set of King SSL's. To make a VF turn in and minimise understeer, you can't run the rear ride height lower than the front as it screws up the roll axis of the chassis. Traditionally dumping the rear of a VF, make it understeer and fix it with a big rear sway bar results in nervous unpredictable handling car destined to be wrapped around a tree.

The problem with spring and shock selection for a Commodore is the amount of organisations having a dabble with it, a multitude of "Joe Blows" who claim to know how the VF chassis is best optimised and most don't is the reality of it. They're selling ride heights and seat of the pants stability impressions and throwing in some quality names Eibach, Bilstein, H&R etc sucks more people in to spend more money!

HSV used Eibach springs in the VE. HSV did the R&D ffs.

 

[RevNev]

HSV used Eibach springs in the VE. HSV did the R&D ffs.

At "overlander" ride heights undesirable for most enthusiasts. The first thing most throw in the bin is HSV's 4WD spring package isn't it?
Why would HSV contract Eibach to manufacture road car springs when HRT and Walkinshaw Andretti use King springs in the race cars? Wouldn't they use Eibach's if they provided greater potential to win races? DJR uses King Springs too and how many races did the DJR Mustangs win?

 

[HollySSV]

Eibach have never had a Commodore in their possession for the type of R&D they've done with BMW's to manufacture an optimum spring for a particular chassis. Bit hard in Germany to grab a Commodore for a tweak and give it belt around the Nürburgring circuit as they do with easily accessible Euro cars.

The Eibach Commodore kit is a "Joe Blow" specification given to Eibach to manufacturer like the BMW M3/M4 kits Eibach USA supply. If you buy an Eibach Pro kit for an M3/M4 BMW in the USA, you don't get the kit Eibach Germany developed, you get the kit "Joe Blow" specified for Eibach to manufacture. Eibach manufacture an excellent quality spring but how well they work in a Commodore is reliant on "Joe Blow's" impression of what the Commodore chassis needs, not the kit Eibach Germany developed from their own R&D.

The first "Joe Blow" Eibach kit for a VF was a VE kit jacking the VF front end too high. The car understeered like a pig and was a 2.0 seconds slower around Mallala than set of King SSL's. To make a VF turn in and minimise understeer, you can't run the rear ride height lower than the front as it screws up the roll axis of the chassis. Traditionally dumping the rear of a VF, make it understeer and fix it with a big rear sway bar results in nervous unpredictable handling car destined to be wrapped around a tree.

The problem with spring and shock selection for a Commodore is the amount of organisations having a dabble with it, a multitude of "Joe Blows" who claim to know how the VF chassis is best optimised and most don't is the reality of it. They're selling ride heights and seat of the pants stability impressions and throwing in some quality names Eibach, Bilstein, H&R etc sucks more people in to spend more money!

Unfortunately Nev, I don’t have access to track for development where I live. Most “Jo Blows” realistically can only purchase advised on other owners impressions of those particular parts. Looking at reviews on parts for the commodores not only here, but also in the US highly recommended Eibach & and few others as a spring of choice.

 

[RevNev]

Unfortunately Nev, I don’t have access to track for development where I live. Most “Jo Blows” realistically can only purchase advised on other owners impressions of those particular parts. Looking at reviews on parts for the commodores not only here, but also in the US highly recommended Eibach & and few others as a spring of choice.

Springs and suspension parts have many different importance factors to different people. Coil overs are better for some because they're ride height adjustable. Eibach's are better for some thinking they're a better quality spring than Kings or Pedders. Then you have organisations marketing spring and shock combos often devised by people with no idea about the vehicle dynamics they're marketing for. A few sell generic Bilstein's with the wrong valving to suit the average aftermarket spring rates and the car rides badly, over dampened, stiff and bouncy.

It depends on what you're hoping to achieve with a spring and shock change to determine what parts and brands are best suited. Eibach's are no good for me because there's one set meaning I can't easily set ride heights optimally. Commodores are renowned for sitting lower on the RHS and using King's, I can use SL's in the rear if a particular car's too low, or an SL in the RHF if need be. That doesn't mean King are better springs or Eibach are no good. It means to me that someone won't complain about uneven ride heights.

For what reason is a particular spring or shock a component of choice is the question to be answered when deciding what to buy?

 

[shane_3800]

At "overlander" ride heights undesirable for most enthusiasts. The first thing most throw in the bin is HSV's 4WD spring package isn't it?
Why would HSV contract Eibach to manufacture road car springs when HRT and Walkinshaw Andretti use King springs in the race cars? Wouldn't they use Eibach's if they provided greater potential to win races? DJR uses King Springs too and how many races did the DJR Mustangs win?

I don't know go ask HSV. But they did use Eibach springs.

 

[panhead]

Eibach have never had a Commodore in their possession for the type of R&D they've done with BMW's to manufacture an optimum spring for a particular chassis. Bit hard in Germany to grab a Commodore for a tweak and give it belt around the Nürburgring circuit as they do with easily accessible Euro cars.

The Eibach Commodore kit is a "Joe Blow" specification given to Eibach to manufacturer like the BMW M3/M4 kits Eibach USA supply. If you buy an Eibach Pro kit for an M3/M4 BMW in the USA, you don't get the kit Eibach Germany developed, you get the kit "Joe Blow" specified for Eibach to manufacture. Eibach manufacture an excellent quality spring but how well they work in a Commodore is reliant on "Joe Blow's" impression of what the Commodore chassis needs, not the kit Eibach Germany developed from their own R&D.

The first "Joe Blow" Eibach kit for a VF was a VE kit jacking the VF front end too high. The car understeered like a pig and was a 2.0 seconds slower around Mallala than set of King SSL's. To make a VF turn in and minimise understeer, you can't run the rear ride height lower than the front as it screws up the roll axis of the chassis. Traditionally dumping the rear of a VF, make it understeer and fix it with a big rear sway bar results in nervous unpredictable handling car destined to be wrapped around a tree.

The problem with spring and shock selection for a Commodore is the amount of organisations having a dabble with it, a multitude of "Joe Blows" who claim to know how the VF chassis is best optimised and most don't is the reality of it. They're selling ride heights and seat of the pants stability impressions and throwing in some quality names Eibach, Bilstein, H&R etc sucks more people in to spend more money!

I agree the Eibach setups for the Euros is a good aftermarket choice for quality and performance as they have done a heap of R&D over the years and worked very closely with the German manufacturers.

They were not just the OEM suspension setup for M Division they were also the OEM fitment for AMG as well and I had them in my E63 and first C63 and the Black Series at the time was using KW.

I pulled the Eibach from my 2010 C63 and replaced it with KW for better adjustability.

I think AMG are now using Sachs but don't crucify me if I'm wrong.

I looked into fitting Eibach springs to my 2010 SS Ute ten years ago because I felt they were superior to Kings and other brands but couldn't find anything that suited the ride height I was after and that's because the choice was very limited and basically it was thrown together like as you said to sell on brand alone without much development.

They may have rectified that by now and it would be good if they did as they do produce good springs.



.

 

[RevNev]

I looked into fitting Eibach springs to my 2010 SS Ute ten years ago because I felt they were superior to Kings and other brands but couldn't find anything that suited the ride height I was after and that's because the choice was very limited and basically it was thrown together like as you said to sell on brand alone without much development.

King springs and Monroe have done the most R&D on Commodores and for VE/VF, they provide a good comfort vs handling compromise with lowered ride heights. Most King spring issues revolve around using the wrong shocks either retaining standard shocks riding on the bump stops with SSSL's, or using shocks valved for linear springs of higher rates.

With Euro cars, I only fit Eibach's or KW if handling and track performance is the priority over comfort. Eibach's are excellently manufactured quality springs, but the greatest quality spring is no good unless it's properly rated with a corresponding shock for an intended application on a specific vehicle.

 

[3rspecB]

Incase people aren't aware, Monroe was the OE supplier of springs/shocks for VE/VF commodore. With all the data they had, it's surprising that Monroe never offered an aftermarket perfomance package for the commodore.

 

[shane_3800]

It's not surprising seeing as spring rates are qyite predictable. It's not like there's some magic spring that can be obtained by changing it to unobtanium.
If you taper the spring it's rate will not be linear but it will follow the taper rate linear.
It's not really a big secret which is why a coilover company in QLD can compeate with the best.

The engineering is in the shocks.
But if your spring works the first day but saggs later on it will not perform the way intended meaning it's a waste of money.
The best springs for longevity are Eibach hands down.
Go use inferior stuff if you want but it will sag and loose it's properties.