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New Commodore - 2018 First Look

Discussion in 'News/Updates' started by Sabbath', Oct 26, 2016.

  1. VT13

    VT13 Member

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    I'd go beyond the badge and say that the name Holden needs to be dropped. Both Holden and Commodore have a strong association with being an Australian car. Holden today are not the Holden of yesterday, they are a joke and have been for some time. Sure the VF is the most advanced Australian car ever made....but ultimately the one to bring it all down. Commodore needed to shrink in size to stay relevant and that is what the Holden muppets should have been doing with their billions of tax payers funding......Build competitive cars that are in demand. Instead we get a nice large car that has little sales potential and a string of Holden badged crap from the old Daewoo factory. Holden's business model seems to have been a drive to become Australia's third South Korean importer.......the one without the five plus year warranties!

    Out of respect, GM-Holden should change it's name to GM-Asia. Mazda and Hyundai have pulled Holdens pants down big time without a cent of tax payer assistance. Holden's market share will continue to fade into complete irrelevance, Holden will serve as a future case study on how to throw out the baby with the bath water, hero to zero.......what not to do if you want to maintain market leadership.........what really jerks me off though is that they wasted billions of tax payers dollars in sinking their ship.
     
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  2. Smitty

    Smitty Well-Known Member

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    correction to that... the Japanese and Korean governments support their auto industries to the max.
    The Jap government gives subsidies and tax incentives to assist auto manufacturing there..
    and the Korean Govt has an Auto Industry Promotion Policy that helps big time...
     
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  3. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    The advantage the Jap and Korean companies have is that they have been building cars that were wanted by buyers world-wide in huge numbers.

    If Holden had spent the billion dollar development cost of the VE into either a truly competitive small vehicle or SUV with large scale export potential, instead of developing just another large sedan, who knows where they might have been today?

    As far as keeping thevHolden name, I think that will depend on the company's future market success. If the new Commodore fails to take off and the other imported models predominate over the next five years or so, the name could die.

    Remember though that Vauxhall makes none of its own designs these days and GM has retained the name for the UK market. They could be very reluctant to kill off a name that is so sinonymous with Australia.
     
  4. Stroppy

    Stroppy Member

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    I'm pretty sure they wanted to. I remember hearing talk that GMH wanted total design and manufacturing responsibility for the Cruze but Korea was just cheaper. In the end GM US allowed Holden a lot of input into the suspension and final outside look but the basic outside look was penned elsewhere.

    If Holden had been allowed to totally design the Captiva, Trax and Cruze and build one or two of those in Elizabeth the company's bacon would have been saved...that and/or being allowed to ship VF Wagons and utes to the US wherein the yanks would have gone nuts for them. No matter how you look at it the whole debacle, from poor production choices, political indifference and GM US's fickleness there's going the be a hell of a lot of good people from Holden, Ford, Toyota and all the little companies that are going to be out of work. Not all of them are going to get jobs in factories again, or build subs or dig iron out of the ground. This will rank as the stupidest, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot by a government ever.
     
  5. Noeleter

    Noeleter Active Member

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    The plan was for Holden to be the RWD experts of GM and export to the rest of the world. GM's problems in the US killed the dream along with a little assistance by Tony Abbott.
     
  6. Stroppy

    Stroppy Member

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    Noel...yes, spot on. But Tony and Joe did more than just assist this death of industry a "little bit"...they heckled and dared Holden into a corner. That, conflated with the GFC, killed the whole program you mentioned. That Belgian industrialist wanted to keep the dream alive but the Federal government scared him off as well as GM US. We have effectively let these people kill our major industries. Great, isn't it?
     
  7. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    The decision was well and truly made by the time the Abbott government was elected and everybody at Govco knew it. The only thing left was the final call on when which was made weeks after the election. Abbott and Hockey were copping flak and more or less called on Holden to put up or shut up on the issue. For anybody to infer that a major car manufacturer would suddenly up stumps within weeks of an election because of the result is simply laughable.
     
  8. Stroppy

    Stroppy Member

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    I know from good information that things were grim even before the election. The GFC had turned GM US into a basket case which was only allowed to stay alive by the good grace of Obama who was desperate to save the entire industry, realising the strategic and employment consequences of GM going belly-up.

    There was a lot of discussion about the overseas outposts and which would be allowed to keep going. Holden was in a deep dark place BUT I have to disagree with you about the time frame. Reuss was waiting on the decision for government supplementation of a new model package. The Libs had already indicated that if they were elected there'd be precious little further government support for the car industry. So once Rabbit got into power Reuss knew that the lights were going to be turned-out. The heckling in parliament just cemented the decision.

    Contrary to what you say about decisions being made quickly look at how fast Toyota made their decision to quit local manufacturing. That took about a week. They were waiting to see if GMH would get their funding which would guarantee the economy of scale for their supplier base. Once GMH decided to cark it they followed suit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  9. convas

    convas Member

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    Its a sad day when all our car factories finally shutdown but really they had very little hope once the borders were opened, once import restrictions were lifted and import duties removed the chances of them surviving was minimal, they had no hope of competing with low cost overseas producers who have much greater economies of scale.
    Thailand is now the second biggest source of cars imported into Australia from basically nothing a few years ago, thanks to our free trade agreement with them, we have no chance of competing with them cost wise and how many Australians want to pay a premium for Australian built cars ? not many.
     
  10. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    The decision was made at Toyota in principal a long time back to end production at the end of the current shape Camry. The only question was when the announcement was to be made. The way automotive supply chains work it's virtually impossible to keep such things a secret much beyond when management made it public anyway.

    Further, read my posts in this thread with regard to the back story and many reasons why Australian production has finished: http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/2016-2017.223648/page-3#post-2526698
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  11. Noeleter

    Noeleter Active Member

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    Toyota only made their decision after GM made their decision to leave. Toyota had invested a fortune in a relatively new plant and would have been here for the long term. However, Toyota needed at least one other manufacturer to stay to make the supply chain viable.
     
  12. Stroppy

    Stroppy Member

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    Think about this. A Thai-built car selling here for about 30 grand probably only costs the large manufacturer using Thai labour about 15 grand (or less) off the line...that is complete with all costs, including imported parts. So just who is being swindled? The public, that's who! Okay...for that same car off an Aussie line the full production cost might be around 21 grand. The profit margin is lower so the dealers sell it for, say, 33 grand. That's what killed us...that and the economies of scale and the removal of protective tariffs. Our forebears knew that tariffs were the only way to keep our industries going if we were to have a viable industry in times of military need. It's a pity that both of our major parties today have about as much foresight as a gnat!
     
  13. Stroppy

    Stroppy Member

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    I have to agree with you, Noel. I have a friend pretty high up at one of the companies in question. He as much as confirmed your line of thinking. Much as Reaper is on the money about a lot of things I think his comments about Toyota are in error.
     
  14. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Nope - I have a family member who has a very nice office at Toyota HQ and some other ties (several) at the now sold Salmon st building. I very much stand by everything I wrote. I was however somewhat off with the Commodore replacement and should have realised at the time that GM in NA are physically incapable of building anything RHD thus ruling the Impala out of Australian contention. That said, I did get the platform right all be it with the wrong body.

    Strop: Ask your mate at Toyota what's been slotted in the Hilux engine bay for 2018/2019 release :p
     
  15. Noeleter

    Noeleter Active Member

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    So you stand by everything but were wrong?
     
  16. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Lol - announcement date was taken as a result of Holden's announcement. Underlying decision was made years prior at the end of the XV50 production. Simples.

    Truth be known if Holden hadn't made an announcement Toyota would have done so soon anyway.
     
  17. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    I happened to bump into one of the salesman from my Holden Dealer in a cafe last week , we were just chatting about this and that , and the topic switched to the new Commodore , he said something very relevant , " the people who are doing the most complaining about the rear drive Commodore being killed off , are the ones who have bought the big lumbering 4x4 SUV'S , if they were such fans of the big sedans , they would have continued to buy them , and the Commodore as we know it might still be around , " damned straight . As an aside I'm going to reserve judgement on the replacement until I see and drive one , but apparently the technology on the new car will be very good .
     
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  18. Noeleter

    Noeleter Active Member

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    Probably a lot of truth in that although there are those of us that have not bought SUVs but would probably prefer one to a small fwd "conodore" and will not be "conned" that it is a commodore.
     
  19. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    To some extent that is correct. One massive thing that has been overlooked by most is why the dual cab ute etc has risen in popularity and the 2 massive contributing factors:

    1. The mostly don't attract FBT when they are operated by a business compared to most other vehicles that do. In effect you can give your employee one of these to cart the family around on the company tax free.
    2. 4WD's etc have different/exempt ADR's and mandated safety standards which are required on traditional car based motor vehicles.

    For sure your big Kluger/Captiva/whatever SUV's are also more fashionable for mum's truckster in the private buyer segment and that has also contributed significantly however the 2 points noted above made a massive difference across Australia's new car market.
     
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  20. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    LOL, we call those the Remuera tractors, all the house wives with there fancy 4x4's.

    Tradies have mostly gone to the likes of the Ford Ranger (the most popular model here in NZ now) Vs the more traditional Holden and Ford utes.
     

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