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Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by Ron Burgundy, Jan 21, 2020.
yeah read this one yesterday too, just shows if you stick to your guns consumer advocacy groups can get you warranty.
never be afraid to push back people - works for more than just cars!
Not a bad purchase price for a newly released Series 2 Redline. $47,995
"Value Motors’ expert at the hearing, automotive engineer Karl Pemberton, said piston slap on this type of engine was “extremely common” and there was no evidence of mechanical failure."
"on this type of engine" Wish he elaborated on exactly what makes an LS3 bottom end so far removed from many other internal combustion engines.
"extremely common" With that choice of words, he's probably already flipping burgers. Can of worms has been opened. Should the engine have slap when cold or not? It can't be both.
"no evidence of mechanical failure" True, just possible accelerated wear, but why mention that!
I think if there was a new model to go to, Holden would have a lot of people like Mr Wilson pushing for the same thing and not only for piston slap.
As most people here know Holden replaced my engine after 35000km due to really bad piston slap.
The new motor has now done 7000km and I am starting to hear it again. Nowhere near as bad as the first time but still audible....Most people would not notice it..
I do think that most engines have this but level varies based on internal tollerances...
Pure chance really...which pistons will join which block on the assembly line...
Saw this yesterday,just because piston slap is common it doesnt mean its acceptable,bloody holden....almost like saying yeah we know the motors are rubbish but theres so many knocking ls3s its classed as normal.
Im glad i didnt hold out for an ls3.....that little bit of extra power isnt worth the grief of owning one!
If i were you Ron id be speaking to a lawyer and going the same way as the guy in nz.
It's sad to think that there are going to be a lot of VFII's in wrecking yards with stuffed motors in a few years. GM is doing their best to kill the Legacy of Holden/Commodore.
Rather than a replacement motor it may be better to push for a rebuilt unit, one with proper piston to bore clearances because you really don't know what you are getting with another GM crate motor.
I wonder how many days later before the car was on a dealers lot somewhere up for sale to some other unsuspecting buyer?
I'd pointed this out before, a rebuild by a reputable engine builder is the better option for the customer plus you get to keep your original engine number which can mean much at resale for those who intend to keep the car for a long time.
To swap in a new engine is the cheaper option for Holden but it doesn't necessarily mean the customer gets a better engine plus the you now own a non-matching number car.
If it happened to my car I'd be willing to pay the extra cost for the rebuild over the cost of the installation of the crate engine.
Anybody heard if the lsa motors have the same issue?
Is it the same 6.2 long motor?
Is the piston slap solely attributed to poor tolerance or is it also due to piston design with shortened skirts? From what I recall, pistons with abbreviated skirts for weight and friction reduction were prone to piston slap even when well with specified tolerance.
Many differences between an LSA and LS3. Google will help.
For example "Both LS9 and LSA are 6.2L engines biased on the LS3. Before you think that these motors just have a supercharger slapped on – you’d be dead wrong.
Both are built to be 20% stronger than the LS3 short-block, according to GM, and even have forged (LS9) or hypereutectic pistons (LSA) with oil-spray cooling to handle the pushing power. The heads on these engines are similar to the L98/L76/LS3 heads except that they were slightly redesigned to aid in mix the air/fuel being pumped in by the supercharger."
Exactly my thoughts Voodoo.
And the price may be higher next time to offset their expenses in getting "automotive engineer Karl Pemberton" to carry out a rebuttal report.
Both but the newer pistons are made from better material that expands less with heat so "should" run tighter piston to bore clearances. Shorter skirts are definitely prone to more slap!
Still talking about engines right ?
I hope I never have to deal with this issue. I feel for those that have. I never had it in my new VY SS LS1, my new VF Redline, L77 (now 90k km's) or my Motorsport (9k km'), nor did any of my Son's 3 x LS1's, his L77 or his (current) LS3 with 200,000 k's on it and still going very strong. That said, I'm also mindful of the benefits of lightweight pistons, with short short skirts and less pin offset. More power, free revving amd better fuel economy. It's why most modern engines use such piston design. It's also true that piston slap is an inherent characteristic of this design. It's not just a GM LS characteristic. Skirts were there for a reason. Couple that with alloy blocks and heads and an increased risk of hearing a bit of cold slap is certainly there. If it's present when warm, that's not a good thing. Personally I wouldn't settle for it hot or cold. But, in a cold engine, I don't beleive it's an indication that the engine will self destruct.
I remember my 360 Mopar back in the day with forged pistons, which used to slap it's head off when cold. The solid cam and lifters were noisy as hell too. Despite a very chuncky cast block. But, it revved to 7,500 easliy and never missed a beat.
For me its a case of monitoring the Motorsport for any signs of slap. If it happens I'll be pushing Holden for a rebuild. But, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
Obviously got yours running ...
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