Roadside Assist?

[mpower]

I'am quoting what you typed.
And what are those reasons?

batteries do not last as long. simples.

 

[Big Red VF-SII Go-kart]

My Roadside Assist expired in March this year (never used) , carried over from the previous owner who only had the VF 1. 5 years. It is offered across the VF range.

 

[Skylarking]

Because the battery manufacturer has absolutely no way of knowing whether my car is parked in a nice warm garage in a warmer part of Sydney with a trickle-charger on it, or if it gets parked overnight outside in Penrith or somewhere else near the foot of the Blue Mountains & driven once a fortnight.
Most people have seen batteries lasting a few years so they accept that as normal, and in their experience, the battery lasting longer is lucky.

Obviously consumers need education as to their ACL rights as what you are describing has whiffs of Apple's "you're not holding it right" viewpoint

It's a sad fact that the average consumer couldn't care less in maintaining their vehicle let alone ensure their battery doesn't drop below 12.4V for extended periods of time so as to avoid sulfation Luckily JC members are not average in that sense and look after their wheels

Thankfully, ACL doesn't reference "average consumer" or we'd all be doomed. ACL references "a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the state and condition of the goods". So one could read reasonableness to mean something different based on the consumers knowledge of the goods So the "average consumer" and "reasonable expectations" don't quite line up

With such a reading, someone who understands more about battery chemistry and battery maintenance could have "reasonable expectations" that their battery would last much longer than what the average consumer, Mr. Dum Phuk, would think his battery would last The average consumer takes their car to the dealer and accepts all they are told (gotta love, not, that parts replacement at owners cost diagnostics method favoured by some dealers)

Unfortunately, the issue with batteries is dealing with a recalcitrant dealers that historically fobs off battery claims and always consider failures to be customer neglect because of sulfation (with little to no proof sulfation has actually occurred). Starting from that point is always a hard nut to crack but one could avoid such issues via learning a little about prolonging battery life through periodically fully charging the battery... However, one can't always avoid issues so I also prefer clear lower case on my car battery as sulfation is easily visible and when sulfation is blamed it conspicuous absence when not visible is rather telling No choice with OEM batteries as you get what you get but when buying i always try and get clear cases if available (which is getting harder to find)

As is, I've had one sulfated motorbike battery due to my error and one car battery with a plate failure near its end of life so simply replaced it... In both cases well out of vehicle and battery warranty so not bad in my lifetime of vehicle ownership. Oh, there was another one recent battery mishap but i wont go into my comedy of errors on that... we all have our fuzzy brain days

Like anything, the challenge is sellers expectations when one wants to make a product failure claim towards them... Even today businesses try and fob you off to the manufacturer and still just don't understand ACL.. Me when i come across such behaviour, I'll educate them

As for tow costs, if my car breaks down, I'll still look towards HCC/Dealer for resolution but it's a mute point who pays as it seems roadside assistance is included

 

[Geoff6666]

It is a car forum (Just Commodores), after all.

I had a Commodore 64!

 

[mpower]

dribble

established fact.

people understand batteries die and need to be replaced as a consumable, in a car you get anything over 3 years and you're doing well.

warranties apply to the product only and the product must be returned to the retailer who sold the product. A reasonable person would accept that a flat battery leaving you stranded is not the fault of the manufacturer of the vehicle, an unreasonable person would want what you have stated. If this wasn't a fact then roadside assist would have gone the way of the dodo overnight as any small thing that happened to the car would immediately result in a free tow to a dealer for the next 10 years.

The ACL doesn't even come into this unless the battery lasted a stupidly short amount of time. (think less than 18 months) and even then you ain't gettin' a free tow.

 

[vc commodore]

As is, I've had one sulfated motorbike battery due to my error and one car battery with a plate failure near its end of life so simply replaced it... In both cases well out of vehicle and battery warranty so not bad in my lifetime of vehicle ownership. Oh, there was another one recent battery mishap but i wont go into my comedy of errors on that... we all have our fuzzy brain days

What do you class as the end of the life of a battery? I've had batteries last 3 years and I have had batteries last 6 years.....I've heard of batteries lasting 10 years with high usage situations

You are saying what is expected by the consumer.....Here I have had a time variation of 7 years....Battery warranty is 3 years....So how can you make a determination based on these numbers of what is reasonable

 

[Big Red VF-SII Go-kart]

people understand batteries die and need to be replaced as a consumable, in a car you get anything over 3 years and you're doing well.

They do go. But not necessarily right there, on the spot (unless driver behaviour/regime is such that the battery never achieves a full charge and is in a constant state of partial charge or discharge). They can be found 'on the way out' at routine service intervals, as the VZ battery was discovered last year (nothing untoward about it by way of the car running) at the 190,000km service. It had been in all of 8 years! The VF battery, which looks smaller than the one shoehorned into the VZ, and has a smaller CCA (448CCA vs 550CCA for the VZ) would appear to be much more heavily taxed by electronics and automation, and as far as possible I try and keep it in tip top condition with long drives. I don't do any suburban driving (well serviced by buses, trains and I have a scooter and MTB).

 

[mpower]

They do go. But not necessarily right there, on the spot

yes they do, it's called a dead, dropped or shorted cell.

 

[Skylarking]

established fact.

people understand batteries die and need to be replaced as a consumable, in a car you get anything over 3 years and you're doing well.

warranties apply to the product only and the product must be returned to the retailer who sold the product. A reasonable person would accept that a flat battery leaving you stranded is not the fault of the manufacturer of the vehicle, an unreasonable person would want what you have stated. If this wasn't a fact then roadside assist would have gone the way of the dodo overnight as any small thing that happened to the car would immediately result in a free tow to a dealer for the next 10 years.

The ACL doesn't even come into this unless the battery lasted a stupidly short amount of time. (think less than 18 months) and even then you ain't gettin' a free tow.

Established fact? more of an opinion really (which you are entitled to have as am I)...

I‘d accept it as fact if you can point to any legal precedence where it has been established a “reasonable consumer“ should only expect x years out of a vehicle battery. I haven’t found one.... So it’s an open question in law and currently handled on a case by case basis by tribunals/courts. So it all depending on what a tribunal or court would consider ”reasonable consumer expectations”

As far as ACL, the statutory warranty is applied to a product sold, that is the item actually purchased by the consumer. In this case the product is the vehicle itself. The vehicle as a whole is what is covered by ACL and the law doesn’t break things down into sub components. Holdens factory warranty, called voluntary warranty within ACL, breaks out the OEM battery as a separate component with a 12 month factory warranty but the voluntary warranty is not law... In law, the whole product must meet the statutory requirements as defined. Therefore a component failure is a failure of the vehicle which raises durability issues. As I’ve said, it comes down to what a reasonable consumer would expect... not what the manufacturer or seller considers reasonable...

The end play is whether a tribunal or court would side with the arguments put forward by the consumer and whether they’d consider his expectations to be reasonable (and the tribunals/courts haven’t always go the way an industry expects which is a good thing)..

For you, reasonable may be 12 months, for others it may be 3 years, for me and it seems a few others here a well maintained battery should last 6 or more years... At the end of the day, if an understanding can’t be reached between a buyer and seller as to how the product failure under dispute should be handled then a tribunal or judge will decide... ACL is 100% relevant.

And most importantly, if it goes to tribunal or court, and the case presented was found in the buyers favour, that a battery failure at (a stupidly short) 18 month is unreasonable, that buyer would be awarded the cost of the new battery he paid for along with any consequential loss presented (like the tow costs) ... what I’d reasonable... a judge decodes if a rational business can’t

As to where one goes with their faulty products, dealling with the seller is always the best. ACL is also worded that way but state consumer protection groups have taken the view with motor vehicles that any of the manufacturer authorised dealers are acceptable for addressing ACL claims (since the manufacturer requires defects to be corrected by their dealer network and ultimately foots the bill)... So going to the selling dealer is not a must... But all this is basic ACL 101 so it seems consumer groups still have a lot of educating to do

As to dribble... you‘re just being rude now...

I’d suggest you go read the the text of ACL and I won’t have to explain it to you Don’t read the battery industries biased self serving interpretation of the law... go to the source itself

 

[mpower]

Established fact? more of an opinion really (which you are entitled to have as am I)...

chemistry is not an opinion.