Service steering column lock nugget

[Anthony121]

Have since complained to them about their dealer warranty, they just said not everthing is covered under that warranty, but other computer components like the ECU are, they are full of it, and how a steering column lock module can fail on a car that is only 5 years old, is serviced regularly, and has under 40,000 ks on the clock is a joke, it worrys me how long all the other computer and electrical components in VFs will last

Well they probably wont last as long as the cars from the 60's and 70's. Computers will fail by then

 

[Waykool]

Well they probably wont last as long as the cars from the 60's and 70's. Computers will fail by then

Only helpful replys please, thankyou

 

[Skylarking]

you would be amazed how quickly a wheel will straighten its self enough for a curb to push it in the direction of the hill.

I‘ll take your word for it as I’ve never seen it occur and hope to never experience it

if you need the answer to be included in the ADR as to the reason a steering lock is required you have basically answered your own question, antitheft.

The real answer is historical (hysterical?) bureaucratic stupidity by framing rules via technical solutions to a problem rather than documenting the issue and framing expected outcomes in non technical terms ... Its sad that todays anti-theft is provided by a compromised PKES in many cars where the steering lock and immobiliser adds nothing to the equation Rules followed but outcome not achieved.

steering column locks were proven as a useless measure more than 25 years ago as most of them could be broken easily by simple force with vehicle thefts being a huge problem and that is why they had to legislate the immobilizer.
they could have removed the lock requirement decades ago if it was just for antitheft.

it is not just australia that require the locks too as many countries world wide require the same setup so the answer to why is it still in the ADR might just be this un agreement which is mentioned in the ADR.

http://[URL][URL][URL]https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2006L02664

[/URL][/URL][/URL]

http://[URL][URL][URL]https://www.unece.org/?id=39139#jfmulticontent_c49271-19

[/URL][/URL][/URL]


the only thing i can think of it being useful for is hill parking and keeping the wheels locked towards the kerb but if you drive down any hill that has parked vehicles on it you will see heaps of vehicles with the wheels straight

Neither ADR 25/02 or UNECE Reg 18 make any reference to the steering lock being required for parking on hills as the statements within are related to controlling authorised vehicle access. Interestingly UNECE Reg 18 seems to say that the engine can‘t start until the steering lock is released. Guess the VF remote start is non compliant if remote start doesn’t unlock the steering shaft before engine fires up (I haven’t checked if this occurs). If remote start does unlock before engine start, it makes turning the wheels to the curb when parked on a hill less secure if remote start is used... In any case it’s all academic as looking into ADR/UNECE regs as it’s like going down the rabbit hole.. and such discussions are more interesting over a few beer but cumbersome on a forum ... but ultimately not helpful so probably shouldn’t have starter such

Anyway, Waykool‘s issue is interesting as is the Holden dealer‘s statement that communications is being lost and component replacement will resolve it. It all seems like a simplistic investigation by them. One would hope they’ve tried the good old disconnecting and reconnecting the wiring plugs at either end of the module wiring, otherwise the issue could likely be a software signalling fault / signalling race condition rather than a module hardware fault... If so spending $ replacing a module will do nothing but make the dealer some more money...

 

[stooge]

Neither ADR 25/02 or UNECE Reg 18 make any reference to the steering lock being required for parking on hills as the statements within are related to controlling authorised vehicle access. Interestingly UNECE Reg 18 seems to say that the engine can‘t start until the steering lock is released.

you missed the point about the un agreement.
forget about what the steering lock is for and focus on the part of a signed un agreement between many countries world wide with it being signed many years ago.

the un would need to amend the agreement to allow no steering lock if pkes was present or australia would have to pull out of that agreement just to allow manufacturers like holden to save a few bucks on a steering lock.

you are right it is all bureaucratic stupidity but in the end they just dont want to change it all which makes you wonder why.
is it too hard to change it or did someone assess the safety ramifications of keeping it in place.

just because something is not specifically stated in a 15 year old legislation does not mean it cant be used for a different purpose today.

for example the 2006 revised ADR requires a antitheft steering lock but they are not needed now but also having the wheels locked in a direction for safety is a good thing so instead of spending money and amending the legislation they just leave it as it is because it is already required.

there are many legislations that were implemented years ago that are being used today for a different purpose than the original legislation specified but the original legislation contains enough to cover the current use so instead of wasting time and money amending it they just leave the old legislations in place.


interestingly the ADR 25/01 talks about a keyed ignition lock being a requirement which push button vehicles do not have.

25.2.1. The lock shall be a 5 or more tumbler lock or other lock of ‘Approved’ type giving equivalent protection. The probability of the key operating the lock of another vehicle in the same model range shall be not greater than one in out thousand

the push button would fall under " lock of ‘Approved’ type " but it is not really a lock so you can see they have kind of gone off script a bit to allow push button or remote start without changing the ADR.

i guess we will never know why the column lock is still being used even when it has been useless for 20 years or so.
they were so bad that the club lock industry was pretty decent for securing your vehicle and road rage incidents lol

 

[Skylarking]

@stooge, didn’t really miss the point of UNECE Regs being even more bureaucratic due to the many seperate jurisdictions being catered for as compared to little ol’ simple Aus.

Regardless of the size of a bureaucracy, it’s interesting that institutionalised stupidity is a functional requirement for them all They continue to frame regs and laws in terms of technological solution methodologies rather than being technologically agnostic.

Just wish they focused on requirements based on goals, like it should take a thief 20 minutes to be able to break into a vehicle with common tools that can be concealed and drive way... Then whether multi tumbler reinforced physical locks are used, or a periodically upgradable PKES encryption system is used is irrelevant. It would be better than stating a steering, gear lever or transmission lock or some undefined approved lock be used...

As is, I still have my circa 1980 club lock which was always a clear visible deterrent, so much so I never bothered to lock it (way back when)... It’s on display on my garage wall now...

For now, we’ve got VF steering locks that are known to be problematic, push button start and PKES
that are know to be vulnerable. As such, the saving grace may be that a faulty steering lock may be the one thing that stop a thief with a SDR and a laptop from stealing our pride and joy...

Sadly, the steering lock ADR/UNECE hardly improved on any security/authorised use/whatever,... As they don’t meet their intended documented goals, they should be scrapped... I’d expect it’s a nightmare to even propose an improvement to them... But as we align ourselves with UNECE regs, our ADRs will simply become placeholders referencing the UN regs... Future Australian specific needs would be at a such low priority as to be ignored by UNECE...

Guess I’m saying our ADR’s time is coming to an end post our vehicle manufacture shutdown.

 

[stooge]

For now, we’ve got VF steering locks that are known to be problematic

my question is are they really failing or is it just a detection system that is a little too sensitive.

i have have had a few vfs over the time and i have seen that message randomly on almost all of them and normally it was when the column was putting pressure on the lock because i would hear a clunk and the wheel would move and the error would pop but it would not always happen.
i did try to replicate it but i could not get it to do it.
as i mentioned before i had it once in the zb because my wife has a tendency to pull the wheel as she gets in or out and again i tried to replicate it by holding the wheel against the lock and pressing the button but it wont throw it.

i have noticed it does not attempt to lock until i open the door so maybe it is a combination of pulling the wheel and opening the door that causes it to jam and then on the next start it throws the error.


the dealer is just going off a generic code which tells them to replace a non serviceable part which makes me think they are speculating about the signal not being received.
if they are not speculating then they must have inside knowledge of it which could point to it being a known common failure which should help in a ACL claim.

the other issue i have with the signal not being received is with electronics a signal not received results in an action not performed but when the error shows the action is still being performed which means the signal was received.

 

[Skylarking]

my question is are they really failing or is it just a detection system that is a little too sensitive.

Only GM/Holden knows whether and what the real hardware failure rates. Me, I’m only going by what I’ve read as I haven’t seen such messages. But even if it’s only a sensitivity issue that results in messages without any underlying fault, it‘s less than ideal. It’s less than ideal because it gives unscrupulous dealers an option to rip people off for the price of a new modules plus a bit.

Either way, whether there is a real hardware fault, a real software fault or over some software sensitivity, it needs to be fixed by Holden but they are too busy packing up...

... the dealer is just going off a generic code which tells them to replace a non serviceable part which makes me think they are speculating about the signal not being received.
if they are not speculating then they must have inside knowledge of it which could point to it being a known common failure which should help in a ACL claim.

the other issue i have with the signal not being received is with electronics a signal not received results in an action not performed but when the error shows the action is still being performed which means the signal was received.

Sometimes I feel for the service department as GM hasn’t designed the fault diagnosis as robust as they could have. So working with generic closed when their are intermittent faults is always going to be problematic. Sadly the default seems to be to then throw parts at the fault hoping to kill it...

As for signals being lost, it all depends on the software design. If it’s a state based design, then it could simply be some physical or timing condition hasn't been catered for. In the most part it works as it should but occasionally signals received unexpectedly can be tossed with some messages popping up on the DIC. It’s all speculation of course but Holden should really be focused on a solution to limit potential dealer rip-offs of owners regardless of it being a physical or software fault. It’s a fault nevertheless and should be addressed.

Me, I don’t see the point of the VF steering lock (hills notwithstanding)

 

[stooge]

it could simply be some physical or timing condition hasn't been catered for.

It could just be as simple as that.
The system expects the steering lock module to report its unlocked state within a certain time and when the lock is bound up by the column it takes longer than expected.

 

[Howdy6.0]

Only helpful replys please, thankyou

When the module failed on my car I was lucky I still had a few days left on the warranty but I have had all the injectors replaced out of warranty. My argument to the Dealer, who up until I picked the car up told me they would only replace the one faulty injector, was that the injectors have a faulty design and that it is a common issue with the S1 VF SS and I have friends who had the same issue and had them ALL replaced well out of warranty. The issue with the steering module dates back to much earlier Corvettes, you can even buy bi-pass kits to disable the steering lock because it it such a widespread issue. The Dealers know it is a real issue on the VFs so I would insist they replace the module. I would also tell them it started happening before the warranty ran out. They are a slippery bunch but I reckon if you have a good case they will play it safe and do the job. Believe me, when the module blows it totally disables your car. I was stuck 200Ks from home, lucky I still had a few days left on the 5 yr roadside assist and was near a train station.

 

[Super Coach]

I checked the voltage that i started that car today and it was around 14V and after 10-15 mins it hit 15V so you were right about it not being the battery.

I had some spare time so i started & stopped it a few times and the results were all random :/
Every time i started it the lock pin/nugget successfully retracted but where i noticed the issue again was when switching the car off.

First start then stopped opened the drivers door no noise (didn't activate the lock pin), shut the drivers door and reopened it and the lock pin engaged on its own.

Second start then stop engine, open the drivers door no noise, about 15 seconds later with the door still ajar the lock pin activated on its own.

Third start i made with the drivers door still open this time, switched the engine off with the drivers door still open the lock pin deactivated immediately.

Forth start made with the door closed, switched it off opened the drivers door and the lock pin did not activate again. Had to shut the drivers door and open it again to trigger the lock pic for the steering column.

Is there any chance my issue has something to do with the door opening and there is some kind of communication error to the steering column??

PS. i didnt receive the service steering lock column msg today after testing it a few times. So far I've only seen that msg the one time but something certainly is not working correctly with the column lock system.

What was the out come of your issue?I just posted about the same issue i am having with my 2017 Motorsport Edition, albit I have never had a warning come up on screen, mine has just stopped working.

I have managed to get mine working now but it works when it wants to. I read the Holden Factory Workshop manual and it states that the SCLM has to see 3 input in order for the steering column to be locked;

The BCM power mode if OFF
The vehicle is stationary based on zero speed from the ABS wheel sensors
The driver or passenger door is opened reported by the PEPS module

I too am getting a delay when opening the driver door, so am wondering if i have an issue with the door switch sending signal to them SCLM?

Wondering whether to go to Holden or just go and buy a replacement module for $190 and swap it myself and see how I go. Or is there a software reflash for this module or door switch module?