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The Super Duper Timing Chain Thread!

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by ducker85, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. ducker85

    ducker85 Active Member

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  2. al..

    al.. Member

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    Greenman, RachBabe and Joopjbc89 like this.
  3. ducker85

    ducker85 Active Member

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  4. ajobbins

    ajobbins Member

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    I've had P0018 twice in the last two weeks (I've reset it both time).

    Not sure if my '06 Omega has already had the software upgrade that changes the tolerances (and the VIM delete that needs to happen too if not).

    Anyone know how to tell?
     
  5. jackasscraig

    jackasscraig New Member

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  6. chromic

    chromic Donating Member

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    At what kilometer intervals will the timing chain need replacing? I have a 2009 3.6 litre SIDI engine in my SV6 ute that has travelled 186,000kms. I bought the ute at 147,000kms so I am assuming it may have been done at 100,000kms.
     
  7. redvxr8clubby

    redvxr8clubby Active Member

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    There is no defined time for timing chain replacement. If you have a problem with it then replace it and preferably oil pump as well. 06, 07 and maybe early 08 models have issues with the timing chain later 08's onwards are supposed to be fixed however there is a number of threads on here suggest there can still be problems, but again you only need to replace if a problem arises, normally this would show as check engine light then when codes are read suggesting timing chain problem.
     
  8. CommodoreKings

    CommodoreKings New Member

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    i had a ve omega v and i just did a timing chain, it took about a month for holden to figure out what the problem was but she's fixed now and has a stronger chain
     
  9. aunto

    aunto New Member

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    Hey mate where did you do the job? Care to share? Also the price and whats icluded (eg waterpump, oil pump, etc)
     
  10. aunto

    aunto New Member

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    NSW? If yes where about?
     
  11. Sv6sidibilly

    Sv6sidibilly New Member

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    2010 sv6 sidi engine light came on months ago then went off and on randomly for about 3 weeks, for about a month it's been on all the time, when the weather is hot the car runs sluggish from take off, when it's cooler weather the car runs fine, last week when coming to a stop the engine light started blinking and car was shaking with ruff idle that lasted a minute or so before idle returning to normal with engine light not flashing just on, plugged a scanner in gave p0008 code suggesting timing chain stretch, car has been running fine no noises from chains, if out side temp gets above 30deg it's sluggish, any ideas??
     
  12. aunto

    aunto New Member

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    Oxygen sensor or timing position sensor, maybe someone can confirm?
     
  13. Capsule

    Capsule Member

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    From the Service/Repair manual:

    DTC Descriptor
    DTC P0008: Engine Position System Performance Bank 1 DTC P0009: Engine Position System Performance Bank 2

    Circuit/System Description
    The engine control module (ECM) tests for a misalignment between both camshafts on one bank of the engine and the crankshaft. The misalignment would be at an idler sprocket for either bank or at the crankshaft. Once the ECM learns the position of both camshafts on one bank of the engine, the ECM compares the learned values to a reference value. The ECM will set a DTC if both learned values for one bank of the engine are exceeding a calibrated threshold in the same direction.

    Conditions for Running the DTC
    • DTCs P0010, P0011, P0013, P0014, P0020, P0021, P0023, P0024, P0341, P0342, P0343, P0346, P0347, P0348, P0366, P0367, P0368, P0391, P0392, P0393, P2088, P2089, P2090, P2091, P2092, P2093, P2094 and P2095 are not set.
    • The engine is operating.
    • The ECM has learned the camshaft positions.
    • DTC P0008 and P0009 runs continuously once the above conditions are met.

    Conditions for Setting the DTC
    The ECM detects that both camshafts on either bank of the engine are mis-aligned with the crankshaft for greater than 4 seconds.

    Action Taken When the DTC Sets
    DTC P0008 and P0009 are type B DTCs.

    Conditions for Clearing the DTC
    DTC P0008 and P0009 are type B DTCs.

    Diagnostic Aids
    • Inspect the engine for any recent engine mechanical repairs. An incorrectly installed secondary timing chain can cause this DTC to set.
    • A single failed camshaft actuator or actuator solenoid will not cause this DTC to set. This diagnostic algorithm is designed to detect an alignment condition between a primary intermediate sprocket and the secondary timing chain or the alignment between a primary intermediate sprocket and the crankshaft. Either condition would cause the camshaft timing for both cams on one bank to be off an equal number of degrees.
    • The presence of DTCs P0008 and P0009 along with P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 indicates a possible condition with the primary timing chain and the alignment between both intermediate sprockets and the crankshaft or the crankshaft reluctor wheel has moved and is no longer referenced to top dead centre (TDC).
    • Observing the desired and actual camshaft angle parameters with a scan tool before a DTC sets, may help to isolate whether a condition is specific to one camshaft, one bank or caused by a condition with the primary crankshaft timing.

    Reference Information

    DTC Type Reference
    Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions

    Scan Tool Reference
    Control Module References for scan tool information Circuit/System Verification
    1. Clear the DTCs with a scan tool.
    2. Allow the engine to reach the normal operating temperature.
    3. Idle the engine for 10 minutes or until a DTC sets. Observe the DTC information with a scan
    tool, DTCs P0008 and P0009 should not set.
    4. Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC to verify the DTC does not
    reset. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.

    Circuit/System Testing
    1. Inspect the timing chains and tensioners for excessive wear or misalignment.
    ⇒ If you find a condition with the timing chains or tensioners, repair as necessary.
    2. Inspect the crankshaft reluctor wheel for being mis-positioned on the crankshaft. ⇒ If you find a condition with the crankshaft, repair as necessary.
     
  14. Sv6sidibilly

    Sv6sidibilly New Member

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    Dtc doesn't reset after running to specified requirements only resets hours later??
     
  15. Sv6sidibilly

    Sv6sidibilly New Member

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    Now I get 2 codes pooo8 and p0017 any ideas?
     
  16. Capsule

    Capsule Member

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    P0008 and P0017 would usually come together because the ECU analyses the cam and crank positions at the same time to see if something is off.

    Manual says that, and to me it really looks like you've got a timing chain issue, especially when you read the last bit I've highlighted in bold:

    DTC P0016, P0017, P0018, or P0019
    Diagnostic Instructions
    • Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure. • Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
    • Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each diagnostic category

    DTC Descriptor
    DTC P0016: Crankshaft/Intake Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 1 DTC P0017: Crankshaft/Exhaust Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 1 DTC P0018: Crankshaft/Intake Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 2 DTC P0019: Crankshaft/Exhaust Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 2

    Circuit/System Description
    The camshaft position (CMP) actuator system enables the engine control module (ECM) to change the timing of the camshafts while the engine is operating. The CMP actuator solenoid signal from the ECM is pulse width modulated (PWM). The ECM controls the CMP actuator solenoid duty cycle by controlling the amount of solenoid ON time. The CMP actuator solenoid controls the advance or the retard of each camshaft. The CMP actuator solenoid controls the oil flow that applies the pressure to advance or retard the camshafts.
    Ignition voltage is supplied directly to the CMP actuator solenoid. The ECM controls the solenoid by grounding the control circuit with a solid state device called a driver. The ECM compares the camshaft position or the camshaft angle to the position of the crankshaft.

    Conditions for Running the DTC
    • Before the ECM can report DTC P0016, P0017, P0018, or P0019 failed, DTCs P0010, P0011, P0013, P0014, P0020, P0021, P0023, P0024, P0335, P0336, P0338, P0341, P0342, P0343, P0346, P0347, P0348, P0366, P0367, P0368, P0391, P0392, P0393, P2088, P2089, P2090, P2091, P2092, P2093, P2094 and P2095 must run and pass.
    • The engine is operating for greater than 5 seconds.
    • The engine coolant temperature is between 0-95°C (32-203°F).
    • The calculated engine oil temperature is less than 120°C (248°F).
    • DTC P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 run continuously once the above conditions are met for approximately 10 minutes.

    Conditions for Setting the DTC
    • The ECM detects one of the following conditions:
    - The ECM detects a deviation in the relationship between a camshaft and the crankshaft. - A camshaft is greater than 10 degrees advanced in relationship to the crankshaft.
    - A camshaft is greater than 10 degrees retarded in relationship to the crankshaft.
    • The ECM detects the difference between an actual intake camshaft angle and the locked position angle is greater than 15 degrees.
    • The ECM detects the difference between an actual exhaust camshaft angle and the locked position angle is greater than 21 degrees.
    • The condition exists for greater than 4 seconds or a cumulative of 30 seconds.

    Action Taken When the DTC Sets
    DTCs P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 are type B DTCs.

    Conditions for Clearing the DTC
    DTCs P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 are type B DTCs.

    Diagnostic Aids
    • Inspect the engine for any recent engine mechanical repairs. An incorrectly installed camshaft, camshaft actuator, camshaft sensor, crankshaft sensor or timing chain can cause this DTC to set.
    • An actuator that is in the full advance or retard position can cause this DTC to set.
    • The presence of DTCs P0008 and P0009 along with P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 indicates a possible condition with the primary timing chain and the alignment between both intermediate sprockets and the crankshaft. Or the crankshaft reluctor wheel has moved and is no longer referenced to top dead centre (TDC).
    • Observing the desired and actual camshaft angle parameters with a scan tool before a DTC sets, may help to isolate whether a condition is specific to one camshaft, one bank or caused by a condition with the primary crankshaft timing.
     
  17. aussieakito

    aussieakito Gold Certified Tech

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    Anyone got any questions about how to do timing chains send me an inbox, ive done over 50 sets..... sadly.
     
    gungazza and dybo like this.
  18. Sv6sidibilly

    Sv6sidibilly New Member

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    Correct me if wrong but p0008 is bank 1 meaning bank 1 chain is possibly stretched but p0017 is exhaust cam using the same chain as p0016 intake cam wouldn't that be off? Also your highlighted part states p0008 and p0009 along with 16,17,18,19 or does that mean and/or?
     
  19. Capsule

    Capsule Member

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    Maybe the intake cam sensor allows more slack before throwing an error and that would be next one to come up since they are all impacted by the same chain.
     
  20. h8tensv6

    h8tensv6 Active Member

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    I have had this happening on and off now for months. Had it to holden and they cant find anything wrong. I got one of those cheap scan tools from supercheap and keep resetting the code p0008 when it happens but I am just about over it. I will be looking for places to replace the cam chain soon.
     

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