Timing chain marks and can location

[Johnathan1111]

Hi I’m currently working on my 2006 sv6 ve, replacing the timing chain pulleys and tensioners, I have bought the best quality chain and tensioner kit I could find and I have dismantled and I am at the stage of the chain itself, the car showed timing code and rattled on start up until it just didn’t start anymore, I have done everything right I just need to know now, the timing in the cams and crank were so off I don’t know if I need to rotate the cams left or right to align them, they seem to be off by at least 5 teeth, Is there anyway I can turn the cams and know that I am on the right rotation ? I’m not sure if I explained that right but I hope someone understands what I mean

 

[shane_3800]

If you're 5 teeth off you haven't done everything right.
The chains have marker links on them and should line up with the timming marks on the sprokets.
You can turn the cams via the bolt on the phaser or via the hex on the cam shaft it's self.

 

[Jolls]

Hi Johno

No use mucking about with it now - pull the chain and line them up again. There was definitely something amiss with the setup if they are now out by five teeth. I always get two sets of eyes on the setup to be sure. Once you have it setup rotate the engine by hand at least two rotations and check the timing marks on the second; they should line up. If they do proceed to the next step - if they don't - well you know the drill from there.

 

[Johnathan1111]

Thanks guys, but what I was trying to say was the chain was off before I took it off, the new chain is on now which is aligned but while changing from faze one to faze 2 I may have messed it up by turning the crank 360 now I’m not sure if I’m on the right revolution or not, how many turns of the crank I 1 full revolution ?

 

[Johnathan1111]

To do right bank

 

[Skylarking]

It's a 4 stroke motor so 2 full turns of crank results in one full turn of the cam (be the cam in the block's valley or above the valves) and you should always be back where you started.

When number 1 piston is at the top of the block, the valves will give an idea which part of the cycle you are on. With #1 piston at the top of the block, as the crank is rotated, if the inlet valve starts to open then its on the induction stroke. With #1 piston at the top of the block, as the crank is rotated, if no valves open then its on the power stroke.

With an interferance designed engine, pistons can hit valves if the crank/cam relative postiion strays too much. How much is a safe margin to stray I've no idea before parts start to hit each other. But if the crams have fallen 5 teeth behind (retarded from) the crank, I'd think you should be OK to just turn the cam 5 teeth forward (advanced) of the crank to get it back to correct timing. Then all the chain and cog links and marks should line up, and 2 full turns of the crank and they should line up again.

Basic stuff when it's just one chain. More complex when there are three chains involved like in the V6.

With Holdens V6 they stage the install over a two stage process using cam locking plates. Presumably stage 1 is with #1 piston at TDC and with #1 valves in the induction stroke (but I'm not sure). At this stage, the crank mark is at 23 minutes for stage 1 where LH bank chain and then the primary chain is fitted. The crank is then turned to the 43 minute mark for stage 2 of the process where the RH bank chain is fitted. The cam locking plates are used to ensure accurate cam timing is set... It's explained in the Tech Talk doc below which you can download:

http://[URL][URL][URL]https://docpl...-chain-warning-timing-chain-removal-note.html

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(Edited to add)
Ps: just to be clear, the 23 & 43 minute mark are in reference to an old analog clock imagined on the crank face, used as a guide... it’s the use of those lock plates that get the inlet & exhaust cam timing spot on for that bank. To go from stage 1 to stage 2 is just a bit more than 1/4 of a turn of the crank (but the drivers side has no chain at this point so presumably those cams are in a certain position via the lock plates so pistons won’t hit them when the crank is turned)

 

[Johnathan1111]

It's a 4 stroke motor so 2 full turns of crank results in one full turn of the cam (be the cam in the block's valley or above the valves) and you should always be back where you started.

When number 1 piston is at the top of the block, the valves will give an idea which part of the cycle you are on. With #1 piston at the top of the block, as the crank is rotated, if the inlet valve starts to open then its on the induction stroke. With #1 piston at the top of the block, as the crank is rotated, if no valves open then its on the power stroke.

With an interferance designed engine, pistons can hit valves if the crank/cam relative postiion strays too much. How much is a safe margin to stray I've no idea before parts start to hit each other. But if the crams have fallen 5 teeth behind (retarded from) the crank, I'd think you should be OK to just turn the cam 5 teeth forward (advanced) of the crank to get it back to correct timing. Then all the chain and cog links and marks should line up, and 2 full turns of the crank and they should line up again.

Basic stuff when it's just one chain. More complex when there are three chains involved like in the V6.

With Holdens V6 they stage the install over a two stage process using cam locking plates. Presumably stage 1 is with #1 piston at TDC and with #1 valves in the induction stroke (but I'm not sure). At this stage, the crank mark is at 23 minutes for stage 1 where LH bank chain and then the primary chain is fitted. The crank is then turned to the 43 minute mark for stage 2 of the process where the RH bank chain is fitted. The cam locking plates are used to ensure accurate cam timing is set... It's explained in the Tech Talk doc below which you can download:

http://[URL]https://docplayer.net/2...-chain-warning-timing-chain-removal-note.html

[/URL]

Thanks man that was allot of help,
I have it all together and I have turned the crank 4 times and all seems good it doesn’t lock or anything there is a tick that comes from the cam on a revolution on both sides at different times but it sounds like the spring is poping back up, is that normal if so it’s good to go

 

[shane_3800]

Thanks man that was allot of help,
I have it all together and I have turned the crank 4 times and all seems good it doesn’t lock or anything there is a tick that comes from the cam on a revolution on both sides at different times but it sounds like the spring is poping back up, is that normal if so it’s good to go

That does not sound good tbh. Do a compression test just to make sure.

 

[Johnathan1111]

Is there any way to know for sure that it’s in time ? Everything lined up, after I turned it a few times they don’t line up anymore but I have been told that’s normal

 

[Jolls]

It's a 4 stroke motor so 2 full turns of crank results in one full turn of the cam (be the cam in the block's valley or above the valves) and you should always be back where you started.

Not normal - every second rotation of the crank they should line up, There are 4 strokes of the cycle. 1 Inlet - on the inlet stroke the inlet valve is open and the piston goes down sucking the fuel air mixture into the cylinder.. At the bottom of this stroke the crank has turned 180 degress. 2 Compression - on the compression stroke the valves are both shut and the piston compresses the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder. At the top of the stroke the crank has turned 360 degrees. 3. Power - on the power stroke both valves are closed and the expanding gasses force the piston back down. The crank has turned another 180 degrees ( 540 total). 4 Exhaust. On the exhaust stroke the exhaust valve opens and the expanded gasses are expelled from the cylinder. The crank has now turned 720 degrees - two rotations. The cams and crank must be back in alignment as the the cycle continues again.