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[vc commodore]

I thought torque wrenches have been used since the early 20th century in many industries including automotive, having been designed in 1918 by Conrad Bahr.

Having said that, I can’t remember what my VH commodore specified in the owners manual re wheel nut torque settings but I’m reasonably sure either the owners manual or workshop manual specified a torque figure. Just can’t be bothered searching though some storage boxes for either of those books).

I know mid 80’s Mazdas specified a wheel but torque figure in their owners manual, 120Nm to be precise.

So manufacturers wheel nut torque specs and the torque wrenches that could be set to that specs have been around much longer than even the 35 years of my recollection, but like now tyre places prioritised quick tyre changes and alignments… shoddy then, even shoddier now (in some sense as you’ve also acknowledges with yje just get it in the green cloud)…

As I’ve said, each to their own and if a tyre place won’t accomodate my wishes, or begrudgingly does so with attitude, then I’ll take my money elsewhere

PS: As a non professional home tinkerer mechanic, I bought a Warren Brown torque wrench back in mid 80’s and it cost a pretty packet back then. They are cheap as chips now so no reason everyone doesn’t have one in their garage and make use them.

Didn't say they haven't been around for a while...Only mentioned torquing them up has only been a thing for 20 odd years on wheels...

 

[Immortality]

I don't torque wrench wheel nuts, just like the average garage doesn’t either. It's only the pedantic that do it. Sure it's a good idea but it can't be too necessary.

I won't go to a garage that doesn't torque wheel nuts. Call me pedantic

 

[Immortality]

This argument has been done to death. I've seen plenty of garages that just rattle the nuts and send you on your way. Me I rattle mine until it stops turning plus a few seconds and leave it at that.

Next time you do that, get a torque wrench and see how much torque is required to move the nut a bit further.

 

[Immortality]

The funny thing is, torquing devises have only been in use for 20 ish years on wheels...Prior to that, the torquing process was called a cross brace....And to this day, I prefer to use a cross brace to any torquing devise and have even given a cross brace to a customer when they have had doubts they can't undo my torqued up wheel nut...

Probably has to do with the wheel design. On an alloy wheel you are torquing a fastener against a solid piece of alloyp that gets clamped between the nut and the hub, with an old pressed steel wheel if you have a good look at where the wheel nut sits the steel is flared out to the nut, the more you tighten the nut the more you will deflect/deform the steel in the wheel rather than the fastener.

The loads the wheels see these days are also much greater with much heavier vehicles and much more power under the bonnet.

Fairly much all the major tyre shops I have been to in the last decade or more have used torque wrenches after using a rattle gun to fit the wheel, industry best practice? Liability in case a wheel comes off? All of the above?

We have seen it here too where a heavy vehicle lost a wheel because the nuts were rattled on and not checked (leading to a fatal accident). The cause was a long under sized air hose feeding the large rattle gun which greatly reduced to the torque the gun could apply to the nut. The job was also done by the apprentice and not checked. I believe that firm got fined big time, couldn't pay and was closed down.

 

[chrisp]

Alloy rims have been around since the 70's, so what's different between then and now?

Comical, not that long ago, I made a comment about people carrying torque wrenches in their car and only 1 person alledgely did from this forum, for that just in case I get a flat situation....

What do you do on the side of the road? Don't think you carry a torque wrench and it don't take long for a wheel nut to come undone if it's not done up properly

That was me - I have a torque wrench (and a plastic sleeved socket!) in the back of my car. It really isn’t difficult to do, so I can’t see why any professional wouldn’t have - and use - one in their workshop.

 

[chrisp]

We have seen it here too where a heavy vehicle lost a wheel because the nuts were rattled on and not checked (leading to a fatal accident). The cause was a long under sized air hose feeding the large rattle gun which greatly reduced to the torque the gun could apply to the nut. The job was also done by the apprentice and not checked. I believe that firm got fined big time, couldn't pay and was closed down.

I seem to recall one of those ‘accident investigation’ television shows featured that story. I think it was in New Zealand and it was a case of a bus or truck (can’t recall which) lost a wheel on a highway. The wheel crossed the highway and hit an oncoming vehicle and killed someone.

The wheel nuts were done up using a suitable rattle gun, and a big air compressor, but the two were coupled with a (too) long air hose and the pressure dropped during the ‘rattling’ so it was way under torqued. It had very serious legal consequences for the outfit that fitted the wheels.

It was a long time ago, and it was about the time I noticed that tyre places started doing their manual torque wrench checks after rattle fitting a wheel.

 

[Immortality]

Yeah, fairly sure the accident occurred about 15 minutes up the motorway from where we live now. A few years later there was another accident a few minutes further up the motorway where a heavy vehicle drive shaft failed, a uni joint came flying out from under the truck and went through the windscreen of a car coming the other way killing the driver.

I believe in the heavy vehicle industry the wheel nuts need to be check a certain time or distance after a wheel has been changed. You see a lot of trucks and busses now with the plastic pointer sleeves fitted over pairs of nuts which makes it a simple visual check too see if anything has moved/loosened.

 

[bradp51]

These just popped up while I was looking for someone wrecking a VE ute.

Something to add to the wish list.

https://www.totaltools.com.au/123622-tti-1-2inch-90-200nm-drive-torque-extension-set-10-piece-ttitlebss10pc?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Emarsys Automation & Tactics - Sales (Value Opt) – Always On&utm_content=Free Shipping - Single Image&fbclid=IwAR1NMIXbghNVqg1z0Umopdtdn7aRINlOD4pOqkYNkVg997W_R5OA2enFlTY

View attachment 246779

Nice find

 

[vc commodore]

Probably has to do with the wheel design. On an alloy wheel you are torquing a fastener against a solid piece of alloyp that gets clamped between the nut and the hub, with an old pressed steel wheel if you have a good look at where the wheel nut sits the steel is flared out to the nut, the more you tighten the nut the more you will deflect/deform the steel in the wheel rather than the fastener.

The loads the wheels see these days are also much greater with much heavier vehicles and much more power under the bonnet.

Fairly much all the major tyre shops I have been to in the last decade or more have used torque wrenches after using a rattle gun to fit the wheel, industry best practice? Liability in case a wheel comes off? All of the above?

We have seen it here too where a heavy vehicle lost a wheel because the nuts were rattled on and not checked (leading to a fatal accident). The cause was a long under sized air hose feeding the large rattle gun which greatly reduced to the torque the gun could apply to the nut. The job was also done by the apprentice and not checked. I believe that firm got fined big time, couldn't pay and was closed down.

All shops I have worked in over the past 20 years have used a torque wrench or torque bar to tighten wheel nuts.....I have no problems using them...

I have also had customers say it might be too tight for them if they get a flat on the side of the road...So my solution has always been to hand them a wheel brace and get them to undo the wheel nuts whilst I am there....This isn't being a smart ass....It's making sure the customer is happy..So this is another instance where a wheel brace is perfectly fine for a wheel nut check, rather than a torque wrench/torque bar...

In all my years in the industry, the shop has always been liable if a wheel comes off, due to wheel nuts not being done up properly, or if the wheel nuts have stripped the studs....So it's nothing new....

Heavy vehicles....I reckon it's only been over the past 15ish years, it is practice to write in chalk on the side wall, check nuts with the date the wheel was put on...Or check nuts after 50 k (as in kilometres) in chalk, or placing a sticker on the sidewall of the tyre....The sticker I'm not a fan of as it can come off too easy, leading to problems.....So I stick with the old school method of chalk...

As far as I am aware, doing this with heavy vehicles is acceptible, as you have placed something on the wheel to remind the driver to double check the wheel nuts, even after a torque wrench has been used....

 

[vc commodore]

That was me - I have a torque wrench (and a plastic sleeved socket!) in the back of my car. It really isn’t difficult to do, so I can’t see why any professional wouldn’t have - and use - one in their workshop.

As I have mentioned, I have had customers question whether they can actually undo wheel nuts, once I have torqued them up with a wrench or torque bar....So my solution has been to hand them a cross brace and get them to undo it and do them back up....

So with customers physcially undoing them and doing them back up with a cross brace, why would you have to use a torque wrench or torque bar to make sure the wheel nuts are tight?