VF SS Brembo brake upgrade Vol. 2

[Ron Burgundy]

Insurance assessors wouldn't have a clue what brakes are fitted or optional on a particular model variant and neither would they care. Without a brake failure causing an accident resulting in death the reality is, they'd never blink an eyelid at a set of Brembo's on a VF Commodore. You'd have more chance of getting cancer than getting pinged for a set of retrofitted Brembo's. If there's such a pedantic measure on brakes you're implying, the fitment of aftermarket rotors and pads would be likewise illegal and it's not.

You would be suprised...Especially if they need to fork out significant sum of money for the claim....

I'd rather not test this for $800 bucks it cost me to get the certificate and register this with RMS properly.

 

[RevNev]

You would be suprised...Especially if they need to fork out significant sum of money for the claim....

I'd rather not test this for $800 bucks it cost me to get the certificate and register this with RMS properly.

I just called a mate of mine who's a vehicle examiner and he said in SA, you don't need an engineers certificate to retrofit brake upgrade variants from the same model vehicle. You can also fit HSV AP's to any VF Commodore, but you can't take Brembo's off a Redline or HSV vehicle and down grade them to SS brakes. Obviously in SA, retrofitted Brembo's pass a roadworthy examination for re-registration.

 

[Banjo79]

You would be suprised...Especially if they need to fork out significant sum of money for the claim....

I'd rather not test this for $800 bucks it cost me to get the certificate and register this with RMS properly.

It does seem to be a somewhat grey area, but if you hit and killed somebody, you'd be shitting yourself with major mods that weren't certified, even 20% tint on the front windows (which I may have...) would not be good in a worse case scenario. $800 is cheap for piece of mind. My beast has drank 25000 litres in its life, mods (and certificates) aren't the expensive part.

 

[Skylarking]

@RevNev, one normally buys insurance because one can't carry the loss of a crash (if they are at fault or if the other at fault party isn't insured and has SFA assets one could go after). So failing such wealth which provides the ability to self insure, us mortals purchase insurance to protect ourselves.

Insurance companies policies are complex beasts to fully understand but they do provide many out clauses where the company can choose to deny the claim. Your vehicle being unroadworthy is just one such clause. However, it's a reputational balancing act in part as they don't want to be known as the insurance company that never pays out but to think they would always pay out is foolish.

Their insurance assesors, atleast the ones i've met, are not idiots. They work within the ruels and constrants dictated by their employers. They know their cars, and know what a RVD is. So they have documented evidance of what is optional on each vehicle variant available within Australia. To think they don't know their cars or can't find out about what's standard or optional is also foolish.

It all comes down to whether it worth their effort and any potential reputational damage for them to look for a reason to denying a specific claim. And i'd say they'd spend more effort and have senior assessors and claim managers handling your claim, with fervor, should you crash into a house or exotic supercar, resulting in $500k of damages (or whatever their internal threshold is set at).

So, if you are in the unfortunate situation of being the cause huge $$'s of damages, you are in essence betting that the assesor is an idiot, the senior insurance claims managers doesn't know the clauses they could use to deny your claim and that they are unwilling ito excersise such clause. Your also betting your illegally modified car will garner you some sympathy among the public should Tracy Grimshaw give a toss and actually put your plight on TV for all to see. To be clear, what you may be betting here is your house.

I can only summise you are conflating brake modifications such as fitting Brembos to SS commodore (which require engineering approval else they are illegal and thus the vehicle is unroadworthy) with replacing a rotor with dimples, slots or holes (but is otherwise the same size so doesn't require engineering approval and is thus legal and roadworthy).

Rules are a pain, but ignore them at your peril.

 

[Skylarking]

I just called a mate of mine who's a vehicle examiner and he said in SA, you don't need an engineers certificate to retrofit brake upgrade variants from the same model vehicle. You can also fit HSV AP's to any VF Commodore, but you can't take Brembo's off a Redline or HSV vehicle and down grade them to SS brakes. Obviously in SA, retrofitted Brembo's pass a roadworthy examination for re-registration.

Call another engineer and you may get a different answer as they do have varied opinions, even after reading the same docs... But regulators have RVD documents that list the optional fitment to a variant and federal regulators don't see variant = model. States are catching up.

At the end of the day, if an insurance company denies a claim, your only avenue is to go to court, spend 1000's and likely end up with the insurance companies legal bill when you loose. Then what, go after your mate who had a different opinion to the insurance company? As Ron implied, the small cost of certification give some pease of mind.

 

[RevNev]

I can only summise you are conflating brake modifications such as fitting Brembos to SS commodore (which require engineering approval else they are illegal and thus the vehicle is unroadworthy)

That's misinterpreted nonsense. What the rule is, if brakes are retrofitted that aren't factory fitted to that model vehicle, you need engineering approval. A VF SSV Redline or Gen F Clubsport is a "VF Commodore" it's not a VK Commodore, a Toyota Camry or a Bedford truck. The Redline Brembo's and HSV AP's have already been certified for use on a VF Commodore, and the model variant's irrelevant. The definition of "model" means the same production family of vehicles eg. VY, VZ, VE, VF. It doesn't mean Executive, SS, SV6, Evoke, etc.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

That's misinterpreted nonsense. What the rule is, if brakes are retrofitted that aren't factory fitted to that model vehicle, you need engineering approval. A VF SSV Redline or Gen F Clubsport is a "VF Commodore" it's not a VK Commodore, a Toyota Camry or a Bedford truck. The Redline Brembo's and HSV AP's have already been certified for use on a VF Commodore, and the model variant's irrelevant. The definition of "model" means the same production family of vehicles eg. VY, VZ, VE, VF. It doesn't mean Executive, SS, SV6, Evoke, etc.

No.
That's not how it works.

VF SS, VF SSV & SSV Redline are all different 'variants' all with different tests and approvals.

I know it sound silly but that's just how it is. You can trust me on this one.

 

[KING46Calais V]

No.
That's not how it works.

VF SS, VF SSV & SSV Redline are all different 'variants' all with different tests and approvals.

I know it sound silly but that's just how it is. You can trust me on this one.

this is straight from the RMS site for NSW mods need certification.

BRAKES
Item	Modification
16 ​	Fitting of disc or drum brakes that are not a manufacturer’s option for that series. Example requiring certification: Replacement of front-wheel drum brakes with disc brakes on a vehicle not optioned with front disc brakes by the manufacturer eg fitting disc brakes from a VT model Commodore to a base model LC Torana originally fitted with drum front brakes. Example not requiring certification: Replacement of front-wheel drum brakes with disc brakes on a vehicle available from the manufacturer with front disc brakes as an option where all the parts from that option are fitted eg fitting a base model LC Torana which has drum front brakes with the disc front brakes originally supplied to the GTR model LC Torana.

BRAKES (continued)
Item	Modification
17 ​	Substitution of brake master cylinders, wheel cylinders, callipers and other components with components not equivalent to original for the braking system configuration. Examples requiring certification: Replacing a single master cylinder on a dual circuit brake system with a twin master cylinder from a single circuit brake system, or vice versa. Fitting part, or all of, the braking system from a VB Commodore to an EH model Holden. Replacing single-piston callipers with multiple-piston callipers. Fitting a master cylinder that is not an original option for that vehicle.
18 ​	Fitting or modification of brake balance and pressure limiting devices not equivalent to original for the braking system configuration. Examples requiring certification: Modifying or removing brake balance and limiting devices eg brake proportioning valves fitted by the manufacturer. Replacing brake balance and limiting devices fitted by the manufacturer with devices which do not meet the manufacturer’s original specifications. Example not requiring certification: Replacing brake balance and limiting devices with devices which meet the manufacturer’s original specifications.
19 ​	Relocation of the brake pedal position for left-hand or right-hand drive or fitting of an additional brake pedal. Examples requiring certification: Relocation of brake controls for a left-hand drive to right-hand drive, or fitting an additional brake pedal or control. Fitting dual controls. Note: Converting a right-hand drive vehicle to left-hand drive is not allowed.
20 ​	Fitting or modification of trailer brakes to trailers. Example requiring certification: Fitting or modifying brakes on commercially available, ie proprietary branded, manufactured trailers. Example not requiring certification: Fitting or modifying brakes on home-made trailers not exceeding 4.5 tonne aggregate trailer mass (ATM) that are built to the requirements of VSB No.1. Tip: In addition to VSB No.14, refer to VSB No.1 Building small trailers for information regarding construction of trailers not exceeding 4.5 tonnes aggregate trailer mass (ATM).

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Yes..

VF SS as a variant never had an OPTION for Brembo brakes.

Brembo brake setup was certified for VF SSV Redline variant only.

This was confirmed to me by RMS and 3 separate engineers...

 

[Skylarking]

@RevNev, give DOTARS a call and talk to their engineering group regarding the road vehicle descriptor and you’ll get a different perspective of what model variant and certification actually means.some states have yet to catch up... but they will...

@KING46Calais V, the examples shown are all based on pre ABS vehicles if I remember correctly. Again from memory, and I’ve posted references before, that RMs document makes another one line statement that undoes all such interpretations and takes a much harsher line along the views of the national regulators view of variant and the limitations such brings.