VR Buick V6 timing chain/balance shaft noise ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE!!!

[padrickz88]

I've done the double row on my VN, to be honest I don't remember the bottom gear having 2 splines. But I have used it on VN Series 2 engines and also a VR engine.

Also for the balance shaft, just rip it out, Only ecotec's have an oil gallery going to the balance shaft bearing, the buick doesn't.
It may be a little hard to pull out at first, on my old engine it took some prying with a big screwdriver but the next engine it simple slipped out.

 

[Azwellaz]

UPDATE:

Did a little cleaning of the old gasket etc this morning, got everything ready, about to remove the old timing set and what do you know?!?!

I have every socket but the 28mm i need to get the bloody thing off! I spent the better part of the day hunting one of these buggers and finally got one, took the old timing set off, put the new one on, gasket goo on the timing cover and new timing cover gasket and guess what happened? The goddam timing cover wouldn't go on because it fouled on the new timing set which appears to be slightly bigger in diameter and thicker than the old timing set ( INSERT MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CURSE WORDS HERE! )

I purchased the CROW CS6VP timing set which actually has JP Performance written on it? So can anyone shed some light on the subject? I haven't checked engine numbers yet but i am wondering if perhaps my VR S1 12/93 ( Buick engine ) has been changed at some stage and now has a VN S1 motor?

This might seem like a simple little hair pulling out saga but its one of many so far with this car, i was expecting to be out cruising tonight but instead i am wondering how much more i need to spend before this silly BOG STOCK car is back on the road owing me LOTS more than it is worth

Cheers

 

[Jxfwsf]

Where is it fowling?
Oil pump lined up correctly?

vn s1 timing cover... water pump would have a plate between the case and pump with 2 gaskets, was also no provision for the cam position sensor as it was never used here.
Don't think there is any difference in the diameter of the sprockets, just the center of them so if it was a s1 vn engine and cam there's no way a later model set would even fit over the cam snout.
No way to fit a later cam in an earlier block either as there's no provision to bolt the retainer (behind the sprocket and balance shaft drive gear) to the block.

I've used the same cs6vp set on 3 engines (91 vn engine and 2 vr).... actually could be 4 engines now... had a bad run buying $100 engines off ebuy without hearing them running that crapped out within a week before the car was put off the road and shoved out of site for 5 years before i could be bothered going near it again with something other than a gas axe and sledge hammer.

*edit* there is no difference between a vn s1 & vn s2 - vr s1 timing chain sprocket diameter.

found a reference pic using the crow kit

 

[Azwellaz]

Where is it fowling?
Oil pump lined up correctly?

vn s1 timing cover... water pump would have a plate between the case and pump with 2 gaskets, was also no provision for the cam position sensor as it was never used here.
Don't think there is any difference in the diameter of the sprockets, just the center of them so if it was a s1 vn engine and cam there's no way a later model set would even fit over the cam snout.
No way to fit a later cam in an earlier block either as there's no provision to bolt the retainer (behind the sprocket and balance shaft drive gear) to the block.

I've used the same cs6vp set on 3 engines (91 vn engine and 2 vr).... actually could be 4 engines now... had a bad run buying $100 engines off ebuy without hearing them running that crapped out within a week before the car was put off the road and shoved out of site for 5 years before i could be bothered going near it again with something other than a gas axe and sledge hammer.

*edit* there is no difference between a vn s1 & vn s2 - vr s1 timing chain sprocket diameter.

found a reference pic using the crow kit
View attachment 178110

Hey mate, was too tired and frustrated last night to work out the oil pump drive was stopping me from getting the timing cover on, fresh eyes this morning and got it all sorted and shes now running with no bloody noises!
Thanks for all the info and advice champ

Cheers

 

[Jxfwsf]

Job well done then, nice n quiet and should have a bit more poke down low without a stretched chain retarding the cam.

 

[Azwellaz]

Job well done then, nice n quiet and should have a bit more poke down low without a stretched chain retarding the cam.

Yes much quieter without that god awful noise, took the gear off the front of the balance shaft also because i reckon that the rear bearing is knackered and contributed to the noise and just for the record for anyone else wondering, haven't noticed any vibrations or anything from the balance shaft no longer being used

Cheers

 

[V6 converted hilux]

Thats what i am thinking bud, i ordered the timing set today, already have a tensioner, just playing the waiting game now

Cheers

Hey mate I’m about to do the same on my Buick but I can’t find the gasket, bearings or tensioner on eBay or anything was wondering if you could help me out

 

[losh1971]

Hey mate I’m about to do the same on my Buick but I can’t find the gasket, bearings or tensioner on eBay or anything was wondering if you could help me out

Just go to an engine re-conditioners. Prices will be as cheap as eBay or better and you will be sold the right parts.

 

[Immortality]

Hey mate I’m about to do the same on my Buick but I can’t find the gasket, bearings or tensioner on eBay or anything was wondering if you could help me out

Try MACE (site sponsor) for the parts you need.

 

[Fisho72]

Hi guys, i have just purchased a a daily which is a 1993 VR Acclaim with the Buick V6, not long after i got it the motor started making a rattling noise, i assumed from previous experience ( Never assume! ) that it was just exhaust heatshield rattle, pulled them off and the noise is still there, after much research and a couple mechanics opinions its been narrowed down to the timing set/chain or the balance shaft bearing, i have yet to pull this apart for a look but i have already decided i am going to ditch the balance shaft and just change the timing set regardless while im there ( Yes chain tensioner, water pump, balancer etc too will be replaced )

Now after many google searches and forum reading i still have a couple of questions that i need straight answers to before i have the confidence to tackle this small nightmare

I do not wish to just replace the timing set with a stock one so straight away i thought of the good ole Rollmaster double row timing set from my V8 days

Problem with this apparently is to make it fit wether you like it or not the balance shaft needs to come out as it fouls the double row timing set, there is also the possibility apparently that the double row set can also foul the oil pump cover in which case you can purchase a new thinner cover from places like MACE or add extra timing cover gaskets to gain that bit of extra clearance, now cars have the most amount of frigging about at the best of times so i don't like this idea even tho i would like the extra strength of a double row timing set

So it looks like i will be going with the Crow CS6VP single row timing set which i guess would be stronger than stock and not have the extra fuss of fitting the double row Rollmaster set

Crow CS6VP link here
CS6VP Crow Cams Timing KIT SET FOR Holden V6 3 8L Commodore VN S 2 VP VR S 1 | eBay

NOW my questions are

Do all Buicks from VN Series-2 to VR Series-1 have this 2 spline oil pump mentioned in the CS6VP link?

And this question is a 2 parter, does the oil gallery holes need to be blocked on the Buick V6's once the balance shaft is removed or does that only apply to Ecotec's?

If the galleries need to be blocked on the Buicks also i have seen that you can just remove the gear from the balance shaft to make it inoperable but then what holds the remainder of the shaft in? Can it slide foward and hit the bigger timing gear causing damage?

Any info would be greatly appreciated, if you have read this far you are a champion!

Cheers

Hi
did you find the problem with the rattle ? What was the fix ?
shane