What intake Manifold Worked 304 v8?

[Immortality]

You're comparing two peak figures though and are disregarding any torque gains under the cross over and any throttle response

The TP single had it's higher peak torque figure at a lower RPM than the peak torque of the DP manifold. Torque x rpm is HP so the SP manifold made more power at the lower torque peak than the DP manifold. That SP manifold coupled with the correct transmission and final drive ratio would have perfectly fine throttle response.

Like I said in my earlier post, the OP has not stated what driveline combo it has or intends to use and also hasn't really stated what the intended use is. Without this info recommending a manifold is a waste of time. His only advise was it had to fit under a HQ bonnet and that is a very limiting factor.

 

[vc commodore]

If you must go single plane then why not go DP? Personaly I would use the street demon like I suggested but if you're willing to sacrifice low end drivability then just go the double pumper.
.

You didn't read his reply....He is going a DP

 

[Immortality]

Again, vacuum or mechanical secondary carb should be part of the equation of intended use just like the manifold.

 

[Immortality]

I'm also fairly sure I've seen a printout of the TP SP Vs DP dynograph but I just can't find it anymore. But it's all in the graphs posted, you just need to compare a few numbers on the graphs and you see the TP SP manifold does well even down low. On that engine combo the TP single does well over the entire RPM range and not simply just a high rpm queen.

Just having a look back at the graphs posted the Torque curve on the TP single is reasonably flat like the DP manifold. The TP dual is slightly ahead at 3500 rpm, but by 4000 RPM the SP manifold is up and stays there. A engine that makes 400Ft/lbs at 3500 rpm is not going to have any trouble roasting the tyres.

 

[shane_3800]

I'm also fairly sure I've seen a printout of the TP SP Vs DP dynograph but I just can't find it anymore. But it's all in the graphs posted, you just need to compare a few numbers on the graphs and you see the TP SP manifold does well even down low. On that engine combo the TP single does well over the entire RPM range and not simply just a high rpm queen.

Just having a look back at the graphs posted the Torque curve on the TP single is reasonably flat like the DP manifold. The TP dual is slightly ahead at 3500 rpm, but by 4000 RPM the SP manifold is up and stays there. A engine that makes 400Ft/lbs at 3500 rpm is not going to have any trouble roasting the tyres.

Unless someone is fiddling figures at micron the longer runners of the dual plane will make more average torque up untill 6000rpm. Yes peaks are a different story but in a street application peaks don't really concern engine choice. From memory the OP wants to use this thing on the street if not it's not a good cam choice a little too mild.

If you don't believe me about intake runner length just imagine this. You have a 787B engine on the engine dyno it has a variable intake just like the race car. you do two tests with 10 pulls each test one at full runner length and one at minimum runner length, what do you think the dyno will say?

 

[shane_3800]

Also go look at articles about tunnel ram intakes. Every single one I've seen states how tunnel ram will out perfom a single plane accross the entire rev range and every article states this is due to runner length.
Tunnel ram has longer runners than a single plane so it's low end torque increases. It's litterally common knowledge in the perfomace world that long runners increase low end torque yet every one here seems to want to argue this FACT!

 

[Immortality]

Intake runner length is only one determining factor in the overall makeup of the engine. The numbers are there to see on the graphs posted. On that engine combo the SP manifold has it over the DP manifold from 4000rpm upwards. You simply cannot say that on all engine combos that SP manifolds only work over 6000rpm and the dyno graphs I posted earlier prove that fact.

Tunnel ram intake manifolds can have long runner or short as there are many flavours. If you want real performance you go to individual runners like webbers or ITB efi manifolds. Tunnel ram manifolds also generally make the intake runner almost straight shot straight into the back of the valve which also aids cylinder fill. Yes altering intake runner lengths alters the torque curve but the intake runner is not the only tuning tool used to determine where the power is made. Ever heard of the 5th stroke on the 4 stroke motor? You know the one where they tune the exhaust which when done correct creates engines that are making over 100% VE and has a much more dramatic effect on power than intake tuning will ever achieve. Intake manifolds isn't just about runner length, it is also about cross section, taper and believe it or not plenum volume. Get all of these right and you have a winner, get em wrong and you have a pig (have a look at the Torker results in the above tests). You are simply focused to much on a singe part of the overall engine combination.

 

[shane_3800]

Intake runner length is only one determining factor in the overall makeup of the engine. The numbers are there to see on the graphs posted. On that engine combo the SP manifold has it over the DP manifold from 4000rpm upwards. You simply cannot say that on all engine combos that SP manifolds only work over 6000rpm and the dyno graphs I posted earlier prove that fact.

Tunnel ram intake manifolds can have long runner or short as there are many flavours. If you want real performance you go to individual runners like webbers or ITB efi manifolds. Tunnel ram manifolds also generally make the intake runner almost straight shot straight into the back of the valve which also aids cylinder fill. Yes altering intake runner lengths alters the torque curve but the intake runner is not the only tuning tool used to determine where the power is made. Ever heard of the 5th stroke on the 4 stroke motor? You know the one where they tune the exhaust which when done correct creates engines that are making over 100% VE and has a much more dramatic effect on power than intake tuning will ever achieve. Intake manifolds isn't just about runner length, it is also about cross section, taper and believe it or not plenum volume. Get all of these right and you have a winner, get em wrong and you have a pig (have a look at the Torker results in the above tests). You are simply focused to much on a singe part of the overall engine combination.

Most of Tony Knights holden V8 engines make over 100% VE without a 5th stroke.
5 stroke engines require a second piston too.

 

[Immortality]

LOL, you a funny man.

 

[shane_3800]

This argument that it's more complex is utter nonsense. If you have an engine on the dyno and all you change is intake runner length the torque curve will be affected. The thing is the affect will always be more low down torque for long runners and higher power for short runners.

If you understand how we get to a power figure from a torque reading and why the crossover is 5250rpm you will understand why you get this higher power peak with short runners in the top end. It's because the torque curve gets shifted.

Go watch Richard Holdners videos he's been running dyno tests for 25 years and has forgotten more than you know.