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What to do - rebuild?

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by Dean1985, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. afstruct

    afstruct Well-Known Member

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    Definitely with what you've done previously as everyone has said cam to suit your current setup ,.
    Won't be disappointed = stall and diff gears to absolutely make the most of = won't be disappointed. = night an day in performance.
     
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  2. Dean1985

    Dean1985 New Member

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    Who would the person be that im calling?
    Cheers
     
  3. Dean1985

    Dean1985 New Member

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    Id LOVE to stay away from stall. HOWEVER.

    What would be the smallest stall i could go? Diff gears are a no go, i love a good highway low rpm cruise.
     
  4. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    The ONLY reason not to go with a histall is money. They’re better in pretty much every aspect. Almost all th700 and 4L60e aftermarket street style converters (2000-3500rpm or so) retain lockup so you’ll still have your same low rpm cruise as before.
     
  5. woteva

    woteva NEED 4 SPEED

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    Vin999's house of Holden love - only 25 cents per minute o_O
     
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  6. afstruct

    afstruct Well-Known Member

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    I've been the same with diff gears but remember now you're cam to suite engine will come in higher up , engine will probably rev out 1000rpm higher . All modern cars are over geared = tall = for economy.
    It's good spots / effective revs are now higher = economy and performance.

    As EVY said basically can't lose on stall .

    If worried do cam and stall and then consider diff but probably have to tune / adjust shift points to suite = more cost.

    Some say 3.45 gears are not worth the money verious gain = but everyone is different and even these would be a nice improvement and better matched to the setup for not a big increase in rpm at 100 kph
     
  7. afstruct

    afstruct Well-Known Member

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    Also more money but tie bar roller lilfters = roller cam = more for a less aggressive cam
     
  8. Dean1985

    Dean1985 New Member

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    Whatsthis tie bar rollers?
    More for a less agressive cam?
    Are you suggesting that a cam with a more agressive ramp could also resolve the ping issue but would require roller rockers?

    Just looking at all options here.

    Thanks heaps for the replies everyone, im overwhelmed with the response and appreciate the ideas here.
    I am leaning gently towards a 284 but i have read some places about plug fouling issues and easy to be spotted by cops with the cam.. then referred to epa etc.

    I really do drive in the much lower rev range whuch was why i went the smaller cam, more low end torque.
     
  9. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    Purely from a cost perspective re cam:
    don’t bother with roller cam - cost of cam alone is approx $350 more than a flat tappet cam. Tie bar lifters to suit early blocks like I suspect you have will cost around $1200. Then there’s pushrods, valve springs to handle the extra lift of a roller cam, coated oil pump gear, locks, retainers etc which you’d budget an additional $400-600 for. Then machining the heads for spring seats. You’d also need roller rockers to deal with the lift. Roller rockers are still a great idea for valvetrain reliability even with flat tappet.

    As for your concern of a noticeably modified engine, a histall can help with this. With stock stall and a 284 you’ll need to run a low idle rpm to stop it pushing forward on the brakes. A histall will allow a higher idle rpm so it’ll sound smoother. With a decent tune you’d barely know it were cammed. The extra comp will help here too. Shouldn’t be any fouling issues with a cam as small as a 284.

    For a 284 I’d be looking at a 2800rpm converter. It’ll drive like stock when you want it to. I’d put money into stall before I’d go roller cam.
     
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  10. Dean1985

    Dean1985 New Member

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    Thanks for rounding that idea off .

    Why does a bigger cam 'push' on brakes? Is it to do with less vacuum and more "lope"?

    Could i potentially meet mid way with a 23to 2500stall?
     
  11. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Have a chat to Pro Convetors in Melbourne. Not much point going stall if you only want 2500. I'd be looking a 3000 as a minimum. I have stall and its at least 3000. Can't remember if its 3500 though, I'd need to check my invoice at work.
     
  12. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    Yeah little less vac can have an impact. The lope means they can be easier to stall at low rpm, and so idle speed is usually increased a little to prevent stalling.

    When they surge off idle or push on the brakes it’s not all that nice to live with day to day. If you’re not going at least 2500rpm on the stall it’s not really worth the expense imo. They don’t feel too different to drive in the low end. You need to drive a car with a histall to know what I mean. The only time you’ll know it’s got a stall is when you stand on it.

    Plenty of decent converter places around. Last one I had was a road blaster and was very, very happy.
     
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  13. gtrboyy

    gtrboyy Well-Known Member

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    I'd still want to go 2800-3200 stall for a stocker...anything smaller would feel like waste of money.

    That way if flash rpm is on lower side will still be good yet if do more mods down the line convertor should still be suitable

    EYY were the convertors $900 when you got one & anything specified in them?
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  14. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    A 3200 - 3500 stally is the go if you ever want to run shorter diff gears. I know OP has said wants to stick with stock but we all come around eventually.
     
  15. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    Mine came with the car, and found out all the details when I rebuilt the trans and gave road blaster a call. Receipts from the car only gave a total price on previous trans patch up, engine rebuild, tune etc but I’d expect price to be a bit higher than 900 going by prices I saw on eBay.
     
  16. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Mine was under $700 delivered and I had the option of HD which was around $200 more. Considering OP has a worked V8 HD would probably be better suited.
     
  17. Dean1985

    Dean1985 New Member

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    Guys. I feel quite spoilt having so many people provide me options and support for my questions. Such a great helpful resource and community.

    I have had another thought. You all got me thinking.

    I want a daily driver. Not having to rev-her-up-into-hyperspace each time i drive. Im a cruiser, enjoy low down torque.

    Prefix: btw i have had this car since i was 18. Its my first car. My daily. I do all the work. My family see it as an extension of me. I love a long cruise and feel its stuck as part of me now. 17 years, i guess i should keep on going with it.

    Meat of post: If i was to get a stroker kit. 355. Keep the cam.
    Is this a viable option?
     
  18. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    To put it simply, forget the 268. It just won’t work in a performance application. Don’t build your engine around a cam - fit a 284 and you’ll be happy. Very linear power delivery and can be used with stock stall. The extra compression you have will make it feel stronger off idle than most of the engines you’ve probably read about on here (most being stock with cam only).

    Don’t think for a second that a histall cannot be daily driven. You won’t even know you have one. I daily drove my cammed/stalled/geared Vx ss for almost 12 months - no issues at all, even in heavy traffic (drove through melbourne cbd daily). Only one slight problem was the temptation to sink the right foot. They just feel/sound so nice when set up properly.
     
  19. gtrboyy

    gtrboyy Well-Known Member

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    100% need another cam even if you go stroker or keep it at 304ci with raised compression....down the line you'll realise it still needs a stally & gears then kick yourself how much nicer it drives.
     
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  20. VPRob

    VPRob Active Member

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    This whole post is way over my head. My V6 has as much grunt as I would ever need and I like it quiet so I can hear the radio or music while I drive. Also I am more concerned about how well I can stop, as opposed to go, so I have a VT front upgrade including VT master and booster. Definitely worth the trouble and cost.
    Hey Dean, I'm in Nowra too. What colour is your VR? I'll look out for it out and about. Mines the extremely sunburnt pale blue VP (although I have a plan to paint the roof using a close colour matching single pack epoxy after I fix the sagging headlining etc etc.
     

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