Year 2000 Holden Engineering report

[Lex]

Me, I’d still like to see the old Holden engineering report the OP referenced

As he stated he got it of the net years ago. Not all data is kept on servers. This forum Just Commodores is an example of that.
Pictures that where put up 15 years ago are no longer available.

Companies also go bust, or get taken over. Or just disappears into the realm?

 

[Immortality]

A Lot of pictures were hosted on 3rd party servers which have disappeared. Darren now hosts pictures on his JC server but has to limit pictures sizes or he'd run out of storage fast. Other forums had similar issues, AV8 comes to mind, a wealth of info was lost when that picture hosting website started charging subscriptions.

 

[J_D 2.0]

I think Holden engineers may have looked at the BMW when they were designing a new platform. There was a BMW at Port Melbourne for a long time before being exhorted to NZ.

Pretty sure Holden used the BMW M5 as thier benchmark when developing the VE. Makes sense they would strip a M5 to reverse engineer it.

 

[Fu Manchu]

I’ll always upload Commodore related images to the server. All others I link.

 

[lmoengnr]

Me, I’d still like to see the old Holden engineering report the OP referenced

Good luck with that!
Being Swiss, probably owns a Bavarian Money Waster, and goes to southern hemisphere forums to **** stir.

 

[Forg]

I've heard about alpha, delta, & whatever platforms & wandered who made them? Not sure, but thought the companies that produce cars as in Holden (past) bmw ford toyota, & whoever else.
Started noticing a resemblance between the different makes, as in the shells. Change the rear or front guards, then you could slightly change headlights or tailights, which would then would make them appear different.

The wondered if the shells are bought in from overseas. So, somebody makes them. Better to make 1,000,000 shells all the same, & sell them to the different car manufacures?

Just thinking this for a few years now? I'm probably wrong.

Unsure of the context, but for the most part even if you have a shared platform the vast majority of the metal differs between cars … some things like the Saabs and Vectras that shared a platform did apparently have a shared floorpan but totally different panels apart from maybe the glasshouse (I don’t think those Vectras & Saabs had the same turret & glass though - just the floor pressings, and I think different suspensions too).

You do have badge-sharing, or changes to a front-end as per the Benz dual-cab which was essentially just a re-engined Navara with a different nose & taillights. But for most platform-shared cars it’s stuff like the suspension hard-points, like how all Subarus are based on the same platform despite being different lengths, widths, tracks, wheelbases, and body-shapes. The “same platform” Camaro as the Commodore & Caprice has a shorter wheelbase than Commodore as another example, but a lot of the same suspension components will bolt in, and the panels are completely different.

The similarities you’re seeing are, IMHO, and kinda guessing at what you’re seeing, just a result or manufacturers trying to achieve a family look … similar to how the Insignia sold here as an Insignia had a lot of the same appearance details as a VF Calais, despite the two having almost no overlap (except maybe the fact the Insignia came with a 2.8L version of the V6 used in Commodores - albeit turbocharged).

Very few manufacturers that aren’t owned by the same parent company are developed on a shared platform though. For example BMW’s are based on anything else nor is anything else based on them … unless you include companies owned by BMW, as all MINI’s are BMW 1-series. Yes a current Chrysler 300 is based on a cheapened-down 1991 Mercedes-Benz, but that’s because Benz owned Chrysler before they realised their mistake.

 

[RevNev]

I like BMW’s focus on drivers cars.

The M cars particularly M3/M4 are purely a drivers car designed to sustain a good hard thrashing with nothing luxurious about them at all. They're surprisingly raw, stiff suspension, minimal sound deadening with a lot of road noise and exhaust drone in the cabin. All the M Division promotional material is smoking the tyres sideways on a race track, burnouts and cutting donuts etc. Performance enhancement kits are sold through BMW spare parts, big brake and coil over kits, exhaust systems, carbon fibre spoilers, rear wings and the like. You can buy a chrome moly FIA approved roll caged body shell for an M4 for 190K. Price aside if you want it, BMW will likely supply it.

I've only done the dealer 2000km break in services and was about $120 for oil and filter (labour free) and I do the rest myself, not sure how hard they rip you for servicing on a retail basis.

 

[Forg]

The M cars particularly
...
I've only done the dealer 2000km break in services and was about $120 for oil and filter (labour free) and I do the rest myself, not sure how hard they rip you for servicing on a retail basis.

Hard, real hard ... a workmate has a 520i, I think a little older than our VF, and he pays about 1/4 the servicing costs for the same parts to be used by an independent BMW specialist rather than the dealer. He had a Z3 before it, which was the same deal. I can't see M cars being any better.

I'm surprised with you saying the M3 & M4 will still sustain a good thrashing, I'd heard rumour & innuendo about them going soft ... that you basically had to buy a Porsche for that now, AMG having similar problems and the Japanese makers no longer bothering with performance cars.

 

[Skylarking]

Very few manufacturers that aren’t owned by the same parent company are developed on a shared platform though. For example BMW’s aren’t based on anything else nor is anything else based on them … unless you include companies owned by BMW, as all MINI’s are BMW 1-series. Yes a current Chrysler 300 is based on a cheapened-down 1991 Mercedes-Benz, but that’s because Benz owned Chrysler before they realised their mistake.

Did you mean aren’t as that would make more sense in the context of what you were saying.

As is, BMW and Toyota made the Z4/Supra. Toyota and Subaru made the 86/BRZ so cross pollination does occur

I‘m sure there are lots of others but IMO it creates a lack of diversity and a slow progress to affordable mundane. Just look at manual gearboxes which used to be ubiquitous but look at how they are now disappearing. It’s slowly becoming sad for enthusiasts unless one has mega dollars to spend

And once we get to self drive electric cars that resemble living rooms, game over for enthusiasts being on public roads Luckily it’s some decades away before that crunch… hopefully multiple decades away

 

[Forg]

I think “aren’t” is correct, but other words are wrong in that sentence. Probably “very few cars”?

Toyobaru is the exact same car barring a few minor suspension settings & paint-colours, that’s more like badge engineering … the Supra and Z4 is a good example though, methinks. IMHO it’s way less common these days than it was; in a way, though, as there are also fewer car-makers, back in the Olden Days a Skoda and a Volkswagen and an Audi weren’t the same car with the same engines & just different panels, barely any more different than a Commodore and a Lexcen …

Gearboxes … yeah, fun is very nearly dead. Electric ain’t fun unless you’re a bloke who’s into racing while wearing women’s clothing. A combo of emissions rules & so few actually enjoying driving means the effort to get a manual past emissions rules is a Big Ask given you’re only targeting 5% of the market for your car. Mega dollars don’t even help, you can’t buy a manual supercar any more for example, I doubt Lamborghini or Ferrari even offer a manual?.