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Darren_L

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Tesla achievement is a scam. One of their money making racket they are running has to do with Cap and Trade. Because the car is "non pollutant, 0 Carbon Emission" (call it bullshit, manufacturing carbon footprint is much higher to build the batteries) they sell their carbon tax credits to other manufacturers. Also, the mandates for 0 emissions is pushing manufacturers to create their own EV, call it In "House Carbon Credits". If the Govs want to really stop the "Carbon Madness", just Cap and forbid the trade.

That is one of the ways, they can come out with that car and still at a loss. If the car is sold, in a fair and squared business practice, will cost more than $150,000 USD. Nobody will buy it for that much coin. Is proven that Driving the Model S like any other car it has a lower range at about 190 Miles. GM EV1 15 years ago had 160 Miles, so no much of a change.

The Solar City that is supposedly been built, is proven that Solar Panels alone does not have the power output to meet demand; another White Elephant.

Fisker ( Fisker Karma) had the same deal, their problem was, it was build in Scandinavia. People in the US bitched about why giving money to them; so they went bust.

Elon Musk is a buffoon, a snake oil salesman, regurgitating old, impractical ideas (search about Hyperloop), makes them its very own. Will love to see the end of the current administration to shut off the money spigot.

Anybody can take any car (new and/or old) and jam pack it with batteries, install a couple of electric motors; just like the Tesla Roadsdter (electrified Lotus Elise) and see if you can sustain the business without any handouts. Just try it, at least on paper, research the technology.

the Tesla business may indeed be a scam, but the car and it's performance most certainly isn't
Why haven't other manufacturers even come up with prototypes that match the performance and range of the Tesla ? Prototypes don't have to be economically viable.
Why are other car manufacturers now desperately scrambling to adopt the same technology as Tesla and still trying to match their performance if it's all just a scam....
 

Skydrol

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Carbon Credits; Cap and Trade. Manufacturers receive Carbon Credits for making these types of vehicles. Not so sure how many they need to produce, that, I do not know. But I do know, that is "In House Credit" they do not need to buy. Their bread and butter comes from their combustion engine vehicles.

Yes, performance is not a scam. I said before, electric motors are way better; not denying the fact. Anybody can build a car faster and way better than a Ferrari, why nobody have not done it yet? On top of that, sell it at half the price.

Tesla have not found a magic potion to make the vehicle affordable. Is not sustainable as a business.

Will be interesting to see if these types of vehicles are sold to make a profit, just like any business. They will be so expensive that not many people can afford them. The rest of the peasants will be ridding the "Electric Bus" drooling over one of these vehicles when passing by.

Interesting will be... the similar scenery of the early 1900s. When cars were toys for the wealthy.
 

Darren_L

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Carbon Credits; Cap and Trade. Manufacturers receive Carbon Credits for making these types of vehicles. Not so sure how many they need to produce, that, I do not know. But I do know, that is "In House Credit" they do not need to buy. Their bread and butter comes from their combustion engine vehicles.

Yes, performance is not a scam. I said before, electric motors are way better; not denying the fact. Anybody can build a car faster and way better than a Ferrari, why nobody have not done it yet? On top of that, sell it at half the price.

Tesla have not found a magic potion to make the vehicle affordable. Is not sustainable as a business.

Will be interesting to see if these types of vehicles are sold to make a profit, just like any business. They will be so expensive that not many people can afford them. The rest of the peasants will be ridding the "Electric Bus" drooling over one of these vehicles when passing by.

Interesting will be... the similar scenery of the early 1900s. When cars were toys for the wealthy.

Car manufacturers all around the world are also heavily subsidised by govt. Most wouldn't exist without govt support. The US govt has thrown HUGE money at their car industry and continues to do so to keep it going, the British govt does, as does the Japanese govt. Look what happened to the Australian car industry once the govt withdrew their funding...

Manufacturers have built cars faster than the Ferrari.... They can and they do.
However, many now seem to be getting on board on investing in electric power. Companies like Porsche and Maserati are smart enough, they would have done their research, wouldn't be investing in a technology that has no long term sustainability.

Keep in mind, the majority of Tesla's range are large, luxury cars with performance to match other $100,00+ petrol powered supercars. So of course costs are going to be high. They have only recently started looking at more basic, entry level commuters.

battery technology is getting better and cheaper and will continue to do so. On a smaller scale, look at the boom in battery powered power tools due to the massive drop in cost and technology advances. I've got an electric powered electric helicopter which used to be dominated by gas/nitro power. Electric has taken over, electric power has left it for dead both in cost and performance. It would have cost me near double what I paid for my heli if it was gas powered. As a result gas/nitro power is fast disappearing, only the die-hard IC engine fans are staying with it. Similar thing with R/C cars. Electric took over years ago. IC power just can't match the cost or performance.

Tesla has introduced this technology to the mainstream community. No other manufacturer has been able to get so many people interested in EV's. Up until now, EV's were just a joke, now Tesla has made them 'cool'. People will buy them now, once the cost comes down - which it will.

Tesla isn't just making cars. They've been involved in standalone battery systems for domestic household solar energy which is also taking off.
Like them or not, they have made EV's that can replace petrol power. They aren't just prototypes or funny looking gimmicks. So the cost at the moment has been heavily subsidised by the govt... The more companies involved in the continuing to develop battery and electric motor technology the more the costs are going to drop.

Most of us here want to keep our fossil fuel powered cars, but reality is the future of cars has to be powered by an alternative energy source. And whilst several other technologies have been trialed, there has been nothing as simple and practical as what Tesla has offered. And proof is in the pudding - other manufacturers are already switching to electric power. So like it or not, it's the future.....
 
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Commo Baba

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I think Tesla is now making SUV for the US market and since the yanks love their SUVs they'll have to get it right or the Tesla reputation will hit a big hole.

Next model aimed at more 'mass market' is the Model 3. There might be a crossover 'softroader' Model 3 with some of the Tech from the SUV.

Even tho I love my 'big wagon for a big country' frankly if I win the lottery I'm keen for a Model 3. Aust prices are sure to be nicely increased just for us for what ever reason. There's no petrol servo in my town at all now so it's a 60km round trip just for juice. The home charging would fix that little inconvenience and they seem to be getting useful range. Much better at least than the jokers who still think 50km range in a Hybrid is a good thing.

...and I thought that bus Syd to Melb on one charge was pretty impressive.
 

6LSSVE

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Internal combustion, poppet valves, con-rods, crankshafts, camshafts, valve trains, ignition, cooling, oiling - each and every one saps precious horsepower.
Way too many friction inducing and heat creating moving parts.
Surely we can progress from Mr Daimler's original four stroke idea from the 1800s?

In a perfect world in this current century, Dubai would be a relic ghost town drowning in unwanted dirty oil.
Therefore there wouldn't be any money to fund the latest Jihad attempt via Arab oil dollars.

Forget solar - It costs more to produce a single inefficient solar cell than could ever possibly be recovered in "green" advantages.

I'm old enough to remember the so-called "energy crisis" from the 70s/80s.
We all globally got conned into buying 4 cyl Japanese cars as the price of carbon based fuel skyrocketed.
Interesting how the Japanese make V8s now, albeit not very good ones.

IMHO: Tidal action producing stored compressed air to spin turbine generators is clean, efficient and FREE.
Tidal action is perpetual for as long as we have a Moon orbiting this planet.
3/4 of this planet is covered by tidal oceans.
The only by-product from compressed air is chilled water.
Australia has some HUGE unharnessed tides the further north you travel.
The potential is unlimited.
Free electricity AND cold beer works for me!
 
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Forg

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I thought that compressed air was a problem because a whopping huge tank of compressed air can only release so much energy as it decompresses, and simply carting that tank around would use up the majority of the energy released?

I also thought that solar technology had gone past the point of creating cells using more energy than those cells take to make, even with the commercially available ones?

Even tho I love my 'big wagon for a big country' frankly if I win the lottery I'm keen for a Model 3. Aust prices are sure to be nicely increased just for us for what ever reason.
The "whatever reason" is "because they can" ... however Tesla don't seem to be playing that game as hard as everyone else does, if you remove GST & LCT their prices aren't that far removed from US prices.
The only other example I've seen of that recently was the Toyobaru.
 

6LSSVE

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I thought that compressed air was a problem because a whopping huge tank of compressed air can only release so much energy as it decompresses, and simply carting that tank around would use up the majority of the energy released?

I also thought that solar technology had gone past the point of creating cells using more energy than those cells take to make, even with the commercially available ones?
You misundertood me Forg.
Fossil fuel is and should be going the same way as the dinosaurs - fossilised.

Electric vehicles (or vehicles powered by combustible fuels produced by electricity) are the only viable future as far as personal transportation is concerned.
Therefore I'm talking about arrays of large fixed collector tanks full of perpetually free compressed air powering clean generators connected to a coal-less power grid.
The only requirement is that you base these generating plants somewhere relatively near a tidal area.

Pretty sure we live on the world's biggest island so that is not an issue here.

Then there's the question of AC vs DC - the age old Tesla vs Edison debate. :idea3:
 

Darren_L

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instead of tidal compressed air tanks, wouldn't it be better to use a turbine setup hooked up to a generator ? Similar to the hydro-electric setups being used on the Snowy Mountains ?
 

6LSSVE

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instead of tidal compressed air tanks, wouldn't it be better to use a turbine setup hooked up to a generator ? Similar to the hydro-electric setups being used on the Snowy Mountains ?

Unfortunately the loony greens won't let us dam any more rivers to produce electricity.
They don't like wind turbines either. Might hurt some obscure alleged "endangered" breed of parrot.
Coal seem gas - big no no.
Thermodynamic? Not available in this country for any worthwhile commercial energy production.
Nuclear - yeah right!

Yet solar gets a big greeny "thumbs up" despite it taking tonnes of CO2 producing fossil fuels to make solar panels.
Go figure.

Stored compressed air spinning turbine generators seems to be the cleanest way to produce energy and tapping in to natural tidal motion would be the best way to do it.
 

mpower

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EV is an enviro scam, yes the cars are phenomenal (Telsa) but their enviro cred is total BS.
 
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