Social welfare

[Jesterarts]

but is'nt that a good thing?
because now they are using less of YOUR/OUR money to contribute to their next payment.technicaly they pay gst and state government and federal government excise on fuel, tobacco and alcohol, I am happy to be corrected but doesn't the governmentS make more from fuel, tobacco and alcohol than the manufacturer does?

What?!? Now you're just not making sense.

It's my money, then it goes to bludger A and he buyes some smokes with that money, he pays GST on that packet of smokes which then goes towards his dole payment? Is that what you're saying?

Doesn't change the fact that it's my money to start with.

ANd besides, here is the current situation.

Government takes my taxes and say 20% of it has to go to some random on the dole. So when I pay my taxes, the goverment ONLY gets to use 80% because some random needs a pack of smokes. If there was NO dole, then the goverment could keep 100% of what it takes from me for its other various little projects. Or, they could keep an 10% and give me a 10% tax cut!

I don't see any situation where by ditching the dole, hard working everyday *this bit in a Gillard voice* Australian families *end Gillard voice* won't come out a lot better off.

If the goverment keeps all the extra money then everyone wins through the goverment being able to spend on making Australia better, and if they only keep part then everyone wins by paying less taxes.

I am more than happy to help people who are really in a situation where they cannot support themselves.

But, as far as I am concerned, people who want to claim the dole should have to PROVE to me and every other tax payer that they deserve the money. Weekly documentation showing why I should pay for them to not work and live.

At the moment, it seems the only thing needed to qualify for getting MY hard earned is to not have a job and ANYONE can not have a job.

Also, at the moment dole payments are money payments. Why are they not food vouchers? Fuel vouchers? Accomodation vouchers?

They need food, obviously. And probably need fuel as a lot of jobs require having a car and licence. And somewhere to stay too. Smokes, beer, McDonals and drugs are NOT things these people need.

The dole should be something someone without a job can SURVIVE on until they get another job. At the moment the dole is somethine people can LIVE on and this is the problem.

If someone is happy with a pack fo smokes, a beer and a good root once in a while, then what incentive is there for them to get off the dole?

Fark, it that was my lifes ambition the dole would be awesome. I could easily buy smokes and grog plus I have 24hours of everyday to slend looking for a root unlike those suckers who only have a couple hours of social life after a long days work. And ****, if I knock some random up, safe to say her life aspirations are about on par with mine and ****, we get some cash to buy a plasma.

That is the ****! Whe on earth would I want to find a job?

 

[minux]

isn't all money earned in the defense force tax free,

No, that is wrong.

Field allowance whilst earnt on deployment was tax free...right up until you put it into super.

 

[Decicrate]

it's amazing how alot of different people carry on like everybody else is exactly the same, do you all not realise that every person is different and so are there circumstances, e.g. upbringing, role models, examples set, education, lifestyles etc........
if we were all the same and had the same values and opinions what would life be like?
what would be the use of the PUB section here on JC's?
what would you all do if you had nobody to judge and b!tch about?
not everyone on the dole or the single parent benefit is the same nor are there circumstances, I think more people need to open up there field of vision and stop judging people on what YOU HEARD ON THE NEWS or saw sometimes at the shops or centrelink.

also to the tax man above, don't you get a tax return?
do you not relise everybody including the so called bludgers pay GST, those with cars also pay fuel excise,
do you realise that these bludgers that smoke and drink also pay huge amounts of tax.
and here is anther way the government can make sh!t loads of money, fine motorists, fine criminals, raise registration fees and utilities bills, oh wait they already do that don't they.

I am not advocating the long term unemployed or the little tart around the corner with 6 kids with six different fathers, I see this as a problem too,
I am just trying to give a more realistic perspective on this one sided thread.

now you can flame me, but atleast open your mind and look at the whole picture.

In my previous post I could of spent a day typing out many different exclusions and allowances for many different situations and for many people that do need extended help.
But it was far easier to express my general opinion.

Just out of curiosity, how many children do you think that the government should support IF the mother is single and there was no death of the father or fathers? Ome, two, four or more. How many is unfair for the rest of us support?

EDIT how long should an able bodied person be on welfare?
How far do you think it is to far to travel for work?
Should a person with any form of qualification or experience in a set field sit at home waiting for a job that they are qualified for or should they do something more menial and that pays less untill they are able to get a job in the field that they want?

As for tax returns, I get nothing back, all I do is pay. Not only do I pay income tax, I also pay GST on products I sell and I also pay GST on labour that I charge. So I get hit with a double whammy, just because I work for my self. Now go on and tell my that I can claim it all back like most people that have no idea when it come to business taxation.

I do not read "mainstream journalism" as it more story telling then actual facts, the nightly news and most current affairs programs fall under this banner for me.

I would like to know how these "bludgers" pay huge amounts of tax?
What is the dole worth these days, lets say $300.00 a week, I am not sure on this figure but lets use it as a base.
So if they spent every dollar on products that have GST then $30.00 goes to GST.
if they use 60Ltr of fuel a week then $22.00 in fuel excise.
If they smoke 4 packs of smokes a week then about $22.00 in cigarette taxes.
So by the time that they have spent the $300.00 that the workers of Australia have given them they have given back about $74.00 of the money tht was GIVEN to them.
WOW I wish that I only had to give away $74.00 a week.

I just don't get the smoking and drinking bit when you are unemployed. Being an ex smoker I know how much money that I have saved since I have stopped smoking.
I only stopped smoking because I was sick of giving the government a stupid amount of money every time I bought a packet. I used to LOVE smoking.


I don't mind some one that is on benefits having a couple of beers or other drinks, but a carton or two a week on the tax payer is a bit much.

I don't want to flame any one except the bludgers or the career stay at home football team breeding machines.

the only people that should be getting pissed or upset are the ones that know that there are abusing the system and are too "good" to do some menial work. Its these bludgers that are the burden on society.

i do think that I see the whole picture.

 

[Decicrate]

i hope i never have to live in your perfect world
i don't think i could handle all the rioting and associated crime that would come with your perfect plan

and for the record i have never been on welfare

That's cool you can continue to support the career bludgers of this country, feel free.

yep we have known that for a while lol

That's cool you can continue to support the career bludgers of this country, feel free.

 

[Tatiana]

Single Mothers.
There is no payments for any more than 1 child.

How is that fair if a married woman's husband leaves her? She could have 2 under the age of 5 and pregnant, close to delivery. Hubby sods off with his Secretary and leaves her with no income.

Under your draconian rules how does she feed, clothe and house herself and children?

Seriously, all good to have this ideas but you need to consider the various situations people end up in through no fault of their own.

Let me know your real name so that I do not ever vote for you. Under your reign crime would go through the roof as desperate people do what they have to so they can feed themselves and their families.

 

[DAKSTER]

How is that fair if a married woman's husband leaves her? She could have 2 under the age of 5 and pregnant, close to delivery. Hubby sods off with his Secretary and leaves her with no income.

Under your draconian rules how does she feed, clothe and house herself and children?

Seriously, all good to have this ideas but you need to consider the various situations people end up in through no fault of their own.

Let me know your real name so that I do not ever vote for you. Under your reign crime would go through the roof as desperate people do what they have to so they can feed themselves and their families.

The guys sods off with his secretary, he is in theory still financancially responsible for his kids. Sadly, its all too easy for him to avoid those responsibilities, which leaves the government to pick up the tab for HIS crimes, not hers.

There are far too many generalities being applied in this discussion. You cannot claim that every mans desitiny is his own to choose, its just not true. With application and drive, you can certainly improve your chances, but not everyone faces the same challenges in this life, and its so easy to judge someone else on your own lack of any bad experiences.

Any truly successful man when asked how he got where he is will answer.. hard work, determination, goals and a good measure of luck. The luck part can be the difference between being super rich and super poor, its just as much a determining factor as the other attributes.

I havent seen a single person in this discussion speak a single word of approval for the stereotypical druggie bogan dole bludger. I dont think anyone here would support allowing that crap to continue. The most narrow minded of you though seem to refuse to accept that its possible that **** does indeed happen and many people have major problems in their life, not caused by their own actions or lack of actions, through which they need a helping hand.

Basic humanity dictates that we do something. Whether its helping people to help themselves, handing out food vouchers, or just providing alternative choices like my earlier suggestion of a guaranteed though low paid job, is certainly up for debate. We really need to stop speaking in stereotypes though.

NOT all dole recipients are bludgers, every case is different. YES, some are.

NOT all disabled people are faking it, and being a quadraplegic in a wheelchair with downs syndrome is NOT the only combination of disabilities which makes it impossible to work. YES, some rort the system and cop a free ride.

NOT every single mum is ripping off the system. I am sure heaps of guys have done a bolt the moment they found out they were going to be daddies. And if the daddies paid their child support the way they are legally required to, those single mums would not be needing anywhere near as much help as they do. YES, some girls just keep popping them out and claiming the cash. Silly thing to do though, kids cost a lot more than they realised when they started out, and as they get older and cost more the reality must be a cold bath for them.

Every case is different. Every case needs to be examined on its merit. You can't apply stereotypes to everyone.

 

[Astranomical]

I'm currently on the dole. Not something I'm pleased to admit...but I am. Up until May last year I was employed as a computer tech at a small family run business. Was going great up until January/February when my boss pretty much did a complete 180 degree personality flip and started being abusive. Come May I got sick of dragging myself to work every day, dreading the fact that I was being treated like a Foxconn factory slave in China for slightly better pay, being told about how I don't belong in IT, and how I don't know anything about computers, etc (keep in mind, the customers, people who PAY for my work, and have to live with it, constantly told me about how happy they were with me), and more or less told him to go get ####ed. I come from a regional area which isn't that great for work apart from fruit picking/packing (which is mostly backpackers). Since May I've been on the Dole...and basically, it sucks. My JSA provider, whose purpose is supposed to be to line me up with work, clearly couldn't give a flying #### about me, and haven't even lined me up with one interview. The interviews I've had, I've gotten off my own bat. My previous job I got all by myself, without any help from my JSA. Can't get a job pushing trolleys, or working at a fast food joint, because of course I'm too old (27) or overqualified. And there's a staggering amount of "Level 1", or "Entry Level" helpdesk jobs that require 1+ years experience. Most IT jobs are in the capital cities, and usually they only want to hire locals. As such I have recently made the move to Sydney. Next week I'm starting a TAFE course in Business Admin, and will be taking my CCNA exam in the near future, which should help me somewhat.

Anyway...don't get me wrong - I am not standing up for your typical dole bludger...most of them have absolutely no hopes or dreams, apart from spending the rest of their life living off the government wallet and popping out 99999999999999 kids. However, I am standing up for those of us who are trying to do the right thing, who actually do want to work. It sucks not being able to do a lot of the things I want, such as travel overseas, put a deposit on a house, save up for a V8, etc. And the fact that I'm on Stream 1 pretty much defeats the purpose of signing up with a JSA, apart from having an excuse to waste fuel and time, since Stream 1 pretty much = "We don't give a flying #### about you". Basically...all I can say is that its not the holiday that a lot of people make it out to be. Far from it. If I had a choice between living on the dole, and trying to find work, and actually working and making money (even a minimum wage job brings in more than the dole), I'd choose the job, any day of the week.

 

[Krisp]

Seriously, have you got any idea of what you are talking about??????
Depression, what a joke. I am depressed because I have to support these bludgers that are not willing to go out and get a job and support themselves like the other 95% of workers in this country. So can I have some money because I am depressed???????

Pretty much dont have a clue what your talking about either. Its people with your attitude that makes it so fricken hard to find a job after you have been labeled a depressed case. There is depression that never is never reported to centerlink because they end up in a coffin first. Then there is us lucky few who have woken up to the support around us to and taken the hard steps to do sumthing about it.
In my first year back at work ive paid more tax than i was ever supplied in 18 months of dole payments.

And to minux there is a time in your life when you think your invincible and insurance on your income is never thought about . Or known to one before you relise yes that would have been a great idea, but by that stage your not thinking about what ifs, coulda been etc . Your thinking about moving on and getting your life back on track.

 

[Rufys]

If I had a choice between living on the dole, and trying to find work, and actually working and making money (even a minimum wage job brings in more than the dole), I'd choose the job, any day of the week.

SO go and get one.

 

[NIXONLS1]

This is JC dude. lol *jks*

Welfare will always be seen by me (and my family) as a pathetic hand out for lazy leeches. Even when I've been unemployed, I have never left myself in a position to require hand outs.

Your pretty spot on with that mate!