304 or LS1, personal opinions.

[Reaper]

You quoted me but you neglected to read my comment

"I am not sure how you get better fuel economy, the figures I have seen make the 5 Litre better on fuel as I average between 12 and 13 quite easily. The reality is that the LS1 is more powerful, but as greenfoam says, how much power is enough on the street? Can anyone give a number?"

How long is a piece of string? If you are asking how much power you can put down to the ground before wheel spin, it varies between each and every car on the road. It depends on your rubber, wheel dia, transmission, final drive ratio, weight of the vehicle, suspension setup and the driving style of the nut behind the wheel.

As I said the LS1 is a better engine, it has far more power but this is a given, Holden wouldn't have got the gen 3 if it wasn't better anyways. I like my 5 Litre, but if given a gen 3 I wouldn't say no. I have driven a VX SS and quite liked it, but at the same time my car suits my needs just fine and by the way, I still use less fuel than you.

Holden didn't have much choice, same as the latest 6.0 litres. Most of these changes are driven from epa changes. IIRC the old Holden V8 didn't have a hope in hell of passing without major revisions which were judged way too costly at the time.

Reaper

 

[383 hatch]

seem alot more reliable than the 5l

WTF? How the hell did you work that out? I've had no reliability issues with my 5 litre, however i do a think called "maintenance" which no doubt a lot of people have never heard of.....

As for the topic, it all comes down to personal preferance. These threads will go on forever as the 5 litre will be around for a long time yet.

Having said that, the majority of LS1 owners do have a bad case of high & mighty syndrome.

 

[ducksguts]

I have just put a efi 304 with a T5 box into an 88 VL royal. For a bit of a laugh I had a race against my mates 02 SS VX. To both of our surprise we were dead even up to about 140kph before the VX slowly started to pull away from me. I reckon the fact that the VL is lighter than the VX played a big part, but it was still pretty cool. Anyway, an LS1 is a far better engine than a 304 but after driving both I'd still prefer a 304. The Holden donks seem to have better low down torque than LS1s (maybe not on paper, but in real world driving). Don't get me wrong, LS1s are awesome, but they were built for sports cars, last time I checked commodores are NOT sports cars.

 

[Darren_L]

Considering the Holden EFI 5L is now over 20 years old, it's not suprising there are some electrical/ignition issues. And that's the only reliability issues they have - unlike the VT LS1's that had major mechanical issues. I worked as a Holden tech at a large Brisbane dealer from 1998 to 2000. In that time we stripped just one VS 5L for excess oil consumption, in comparison to almost 1 LS1 stripped per week for all kinds of issues ranging from cracked engine blocks, oil pressure issues, spun bearings, excess oil consumption, engine knocks.....The Holden ignition modules are getting old now and like most electrical components the electronics start failing. And unfortunately even the genuine replacement ignition modules aren't the same quality they used to be. Better to get a quality rebuilt module.

I'm not bagging the later LS engines (VT LS1's were only worth recycling into aluminium cans), but given the age of the electrical components on the average 5L, it's not unreasonable that you would come across a few ignition system reliability issues. Having said that, since finding a decent ignition module for my engine, I've never had a breakdown. I take it out on track days, 2000+km road trips, no dramas.

As for the 304 vs LS1 arguement. Horses for courses. I love my Holden V8, I'd never swap it for a LS engine even if you gave me one. My 5L has no problems keeping up with mild to moderate modified LS powered Commos on the circuit. In fact the VH/304 combo seems to be BETTER out of corners.

So up to and including VS, I'd go the Holden V8 (stroker in a second gen) hands down. It's a cheap cost effective conversion. The extra $$ you spend on power upgrades is absorbed by a LS conversion. However if was say considering upgrading a VT V6 to a V8, I would seriously consider a LS engine. Dropping a LS into a VT is a lot easier than earlier models, so the conversion becomes much cheaper and makes it a worthwhile option.

 

[VTClubby98]

I have a VT series 1 with a 5.0lt, i cannot get enough of it, i have driven a stock ls1 and a stock 304, and yes the ls1 was more impressive but its over rated, newer cars have a better feel imo, i just had the chance of putting an ls1 into my VT Clubby, instead i spent 25k doing up my 5ltr, and i wont be dissapointed, would much rather an aussie v8 over an ls1

 

[dirt drifter]

since this threads been resurrected i might as well put in my 2c worth.

i've got both, a vs exec with mild 5L, T5 box and 3.7 gears and a vs ss with a cammed L98 making 420 rwhp, 6spd and 3.9 gears.

yeah the LS powered ss weekend car is great, way more power, great sound thru the twin 3 inch pipes, reasonable fuel economy, great fun to drive etc. but i don't feel bad at all getting back into the 5L which would be lucky to make half the power. maybe im showing my age here but the mild 5L makes enough power for a daily and also sounds great.

i don't reckon either motor is clearly better than the other. rather its up to the individual to weigh up their desired power level, cost to get there, ease of fitting to their car, install/engineering costs, drivability etc with both engines and go from there

 

[wraith]

Support for the LS motor is immense due to the fact it's been in the states for years and years. The old aussie 5 litre is a fair bit behind in aftermarket support and I doubt it will improve any time soon. Still can't beat the sound. Take it over an LS motor any day.

 

[Reaper]

Support for the LS motor is immense due to the fact it's been in the states for years and years. The old aussie 5 litre is a fair bit behind in aftermarket support and I doubt it will improve any time soon. Still can't beat the sound. Take it over an LS motor any day.

Aftermarket support for the 5 litre is not going to get any better after all it's been obsolete for well over a decade now.

Reaper

 

[wraith]

Aftermarket support for the 5 litre is not going to get any better after all it's been obsolete for well over a decade now.

Reaper

It's a conspiracy by the LS boys I tell ya!

 

[lurch91]

Another thing to consider perhaps is what car the engine is in. In the end the motor doesn't matter if you don't like the car it's in.

Personally, I haven't LOVED a commo since the VS and I've have a massive hard on for every commo before it (except the VL). I think VT and onwards look dog shite ugly, exceptions given to individual cars and what their owners have done to them.

Given the cost of a ls conversion followed by the cost of mods, is it really worth it when the 5l they came with is already a nice engine to start with and still fun to mod anyway?

This whole thread really boils down to personal preference, but considering the price factor keeps popping up it is really worth considering the model of commo you're talking about also. No point putting either engine on a pedestal if you don't even like the car it came in.

Also, fuel consumption keeps popping up too. Really, if you're gonna use othat argument then why the hell do you like v8's at all?