Best method of N/A Air intake?

[DAKSTER]

Yes they should, would make life easy when it comes to mods. Wait they have noise, emissions and mass production to think about. the stock box is restrictive and more air will help. if you look at the monaro it had 2 holes in the air box... what dose that mean there is room for improvement on the v6 box.

No it isn't. It flows more than well enough.

Yes, it does. But does the v6 NEED the extra airflow? Is it able to TAKE ADVANTAGE of the extra airflow? Will it make ANY difference to the operation of the motor beyond some extra induction noise?

No. Not unless you have made major mods to the engine and it actually needs the extra air.

Once fidded a pod into a 2.2L sri manual astra for something to do one day, it was just sucking hot air from the bay and it made a hell of a difference so i take no notice of that above vid.

Of course, how could their dyno come up with a different result than your.. umm how did you measure exactly anyway?

Also did a second feed to a stock air box in a VT ss 5L manual with the same result, Unquestionable noticeable gain.

and even my own car had noticeable gain from a pannel filter and mods to the favtory box. VY V6 manual
Would never take my car to that place in the vid...

You are aware that making more noise isn't necessarily making more power aren't you? Any gains you measured were in your ears or your head. Noise has a way of making you feel like you're going faster, especially if that's what you want most to believe.

 

[drewVHSS]

Are we still banging on about this?
All talk and no flow test results or actual dyno before and after runs
no 1/4 mile times.....
I put an otr on my vq stato, all i noticed was my fuel economy got .1 worse per 100k on avg. and that's a v8, foam tune, roller rockers and sports exhaust.
in fact i've noticed my economy get slightly worse and worse with each of those mods done one at a time.
still haven't gotten it down the 1/4 any faster than 15.834 in full weight with a full tank on semi slicks

 

[ari666]

A rational viewpoint on this would be:
what actual differences are there between a v8 airbox and a v6 airbox on both standard engines? (not counting hsv, monaro etc)
It looks to me that holden designed the intakes to suit the job quite well.
A v6 is a far smaller "air pump" than a v8, an expensive high flow airbox that makes a big difference on a v8 isn't money worth spending on a v6 as it's not consuming enough airflow to make "much" use of an improved intake/air box.
If you want to spend that sort of money to gain any worthwhile improvement, forget over engineering an already well performing part and turn your attention towards replacing parts that "are" holding back performance.
Roller rockers, cam, increase compression, increase displacement... whatever, if you're looking for "bang for buck on a v6" CAI isn't on the list untill you've increased performance to the point the factory intake is holding it back.

You can't compare old mates 9 second gains from parts your humble VT can't fully utilise yet, increase the demand for the air flow and then you can justify improving the air intake.

Why would you want to put the cart in front of the horse?

Damn, brother!!!!

Ruin a perfectly good thread with logic why dont you

 

[0081]

No it isn't. It flows more than well enough.

Yes, it does. But does the v6 NEED the extra airflow? Is it able to TAKE ADVANTAGE of the extra airflow? Will it make ANY difference to the operation of the motor beyond some extra induction noise?

No. Not unless you have made major mods to the engine and it actually needs the extra air.



Of course, how could their dyno come up with a different result than your.. umm how did you measure exactly anyway?



You are aware that making more noise isn't necessarily making more power aren't you? Any gains you measured were in your ears or your head. Noise has a way of making you feel like you're going faster, especially if that's what you want most to believe.

1 If you have less of a restriction you should make more power yeah there is lots more to it but in this case the intake is a restriction. In a NA car the motor needs to suck in that air so the easier that it the easer it can make power. Yes its not huge gains but it all helps and did in the cars i talked about.
You say it flows well enough well where is your proof or are you just taking at as holden made it it must be right???? I have spoken of first hand experence with mods to the factory box and are more than happy to bring the VT to a dyno and do a before and after run if you are willing to pay. Im not a keyboard warrior and im happy to back myself on this

2 Dynos can be made to say what every you want quite easy by adjusting some of the inputs. Or in the test car the air box/filter was not the biggest restriction in the intake system. In the 3 noted cars i talked about there what a marked gain that could be felt (not heard excluding the astra) to the point that there was no question there was a gain. this was noticed by varoius people of varing ages (not early 20 year olds that think they are fulley sick with pods)

3 Yes im well aware that more noise didnt mean more power ( in most cases) in fact there was no increase in sound from the VT just more power and the car felt much better to drive, you could just feel the motor was breathing better.
In order of power gains it was the astra VT then the VY

 

[DAKSTER]

1 If you have less of a restriction you should make more power yeah there is lots more to it but in this case the intake is a restriction. In a NA car the motor needs to suck in that air so the easier that it the easer it can make power. Yes its not huge gains but it all helps and did in the cars i talked about.

Its only a restriction if it stops the car from getting enough air. It doesn't, certainly not on a stock motor anyway.

You say it flows well enough well where is your proof or are you just taking at as holden made it it must be right???? I have spoken of first hand experence with mods to the factory box and are more than happy to bring the VT to a dyno and do a before and after run if you are willing to pay. Im not a keyboard warrior and im happy to back myself on this

Yes, I am saying the airbox on a stock commodore is more than good enough for a stock engine because Holden says it is. They spend millions on developing these things.

Again, with your 'first hand experience', please describe the test methods and benchmarks.

2 Dynos can be made to say what every you want quite easy by adjusting some of the inputs. Or in the test car the air box/filter was not the biggest restriction in the intake system. In the 3 noted cars i talked about there what a marked gain that could be felt (not heard excluding the astra) to the point that there was no question there was a gain. this was noticed by varoius people of varing ages (not early 20 year olds that think they are fulley sick with pods)

Dyno results can often be taken with a grain of salt, that's true. At least its some form of measurement though, and with the same operator on the same car testing the difference between a single change to an engine (such as an airbox) any differing results still hold more credence with me than your 'first hand experience'.

If you want to prove this wrong, google is at your fingertips.

Find a single example of a stock engine with a clean stock airfilter, any manufacturer I don't care, which benefits consistently and measurably by changing the air intake method in any way without forced induction. A before and after on the same engine, with a dyno or some other (?) way of measuring change. Not just a manufacturers claim or your seat of the pants measurements, a real world straight swap from one to the other on a dyno.

3 Yes im well aware that more noise didnt mean more power ( in most cases) in fact there was no increase in sound from the VT just more power and the car felt much better to drive, you could just feel the motor was breathing better.
In order of power gains it was the astra VT then the VY

Seat of the pants stuff is fun but not reliable. If you WANT the car to feel faster.. it will.

 

[DJ_Cosmic_Fire]

MACE do offer a nice product with their CAI no doubt, but personally in my case I have the VS S/C OTR CAI running a K&N hi flow panel filter

I've also fully insulated it to prevent engine heatsoak - check it :- VP-S Anti heat soak campaign for OTR CAI
This is a marked improvement over the stock OEM behind the head light junk.

The 2 hole airbox mod also allows more air, but in saying that it all leads back to the MACE CAI, Steve has designed the kit very well,
looks simple but plenty of his engineering expertise has gone into the kit & all his other innovative mods which others try to copy & fail or be served..

 

[0081]

Its only a restriction if it stops the car from getting enough air. It doesn't, certainly not on a stock motor anyway.



Yes, I am saying the airbox on a stock commodore is more than good enough for a stock engine because Holden says it is. They spend millions on developing these things.

Again, with your 'first hand experience', please describe the test methods and benchmarks.



Dyno results can often be taken with a grain of salt, that's true. At least its some form of measurement though, and with the same operator on the same car testing the difference between a single change to an engine (such as an airbox) any differing results still hold more credence with me than your 'first hand experience'.

If you want to prove this wrong, google is at your fingertips.

Find a single example of a stock engine with a clean stock airfilter, any manufacturer I don't care, which benefits consistently and measurably by changing the air intake method in any way without forced induction. A before and after on the same engine, with a dyno or some other (?) way of measuring change. Not just a manufacturers claim or your seat of the pants measurements, a real world straight swap from one to the other on a dyno.



Seat of the pants stuff is fun but not reliable. If you WANT the car to feel faster.. it will.

1 its not that the car cant get the air its how wasy it can get it, both will affect power

2 The VS came with a much smaller intake on the air box that the VT through to VY, it dosent take the millions of dollars holden spend to realise that there is a improvement there.
you want my first hand experence of how i know there was a difference will take drving the car for many years under various conditions and then making mods and being able to fee the difference. yes seat of the pants it not the best way to feel a power difference and i agree its a crap way to measure gains but in this case you could tell. you dont always need a dyno print out to notice a change.
i have carried out many mods on many cars over the years with severl dyno runs mixed in there after mods and have seen a increase in power so i do know what it feels like when there is a improvement

3 Yes your right and google is at my finger tips and it so happens i know where to find just what your asking for

Episode 12 Online – A taste of what could be… Part 2 | OzGarage

I guess toyota and TRD dont know what they are doing maby you can give them holdens number so they can get some tips.....

 

[commodore665]

VT Commodore, V6 Naturally Aspirated. Currently running the standard factory airbox / over the radiator "snorkel" but with a K&N Panel Filter

I know there is plenty of CAI's about but I wonder about grabbing Air from behind the headlight as opposed to outside air from the bonnet gap? So what is the best way?

I have got priced, a K&N Pod with a Carbon Fibre Airbox to take air from the headlight space.. would that be an improvement? I interested in hearing whats been tried and proven?

Cheers,

Well just to cut to the chase , the Mace one is good , it basically what YOU think give the best gains , never mind what anybody else says or thinks

 

[HamaTime™]

Manifold insulators/plenum spacers are generally not made out of wood. Well the mace ones for instance aren't. A high temp low conductivity composite material is often used. I'm yet to come across one made out of wood.

Chip Board/MDF? trolololol

Anyway, in my own personal opinion after doing each one of these mods individually to see their effect:

• K&N Filter
• L67 OTR intake
• MACE 25mm manifold spacer
• MACE 12mm plenum spacer

I literally noticed nothing.

Lucky i only spent $200 on all the above not full price.

Marginal throttle/torque response lower down the rev range from the manifold spacer, however, that is pure physics. Longer intake runners = low down torque traded off for lack of torque higher up the rev range and vice versa. By installing the manifold spacer along with torque lower down, it also runs out of puff higher up the rev range (again, pure physics).
I still can't touch the manifold, if I held my hand on the plenum lid, i'd probably end up in hospital.

In a nutshell, there is essentially nothing to be achieved from spending money on a stock ecotec's intake system. One of Holden's engines which you literally can't get any more out of until you start fiddling with the valve train/stroker kits etc.
For the $ for kw return, it's also a shitty investment.

End story.

 

[0081]

What that means is that the Monaro has a V8, and 1.7L more displacement to manage.

Yes thats true but the supercharged V6 motor has the same air box which needs more air and the VT ss 5L also has the same air box (be it the outlet to the motor in in a different position but the lower half is the same which where talking about here) as the V6 which is 1.2L bigger than the V6 motor and only 0.7L smaller than the motor in the monaro but yet the monaro has near twice the in intake area.........
Holden wouldnt spend huge dollars on the air box, close enough would be good enough as it also leaves room for improvement over the years EG the VS to VT air box.