New Headers Advice

[Jackel]

I went 200 cell as i found it very fumey with 100 cell.

Made no difference.

Is that because of your cam? Or maybe cause of the tune or both?

 

[Jackel]

Are you keeping the stock bimodal mufflers or going aftermarket?

Was just going to go aftermarket! So the full DPE exhaust system with the bimodals welded back in.
Do you recommend keeping stock bimodal mufflers?

 

[Jackel]

if you want the old school deep V8 sound like the old 70s cars go difilippo, if you just cruising at light throttle, going up through the gears in a manual or auto it's the same old loud v8 burble , no raspy barky tone like other systems,
difilippo now manta are the most popular for a reason,

It was either the Difilippo or Harrop system.
Im not after a loud system by any means.
1 3/4 headers, 200 cell cats and 2.5” cat back with bimodals welded in.
Apparently Harrop is raspy & barky so decided with Difilippo.
Just concerned over loudness and 200 cell cats making it smell fumey.
These are the only concerns that have so far stopped me from calling my mechanic to give him the go ahead of ordering + fitting the system.

 

[Kakodaemon]

Was just going to go aftermarket! So the full DPE exhaust system with the bimodals welded back in.
Do you recommend keeping stock bimodal mufflers?

I can't really recommend anything as i myself are looking at an exhaust upgrade and keeping the bimodal function still working soon.
I know Xforce do the varex bimodal and some shops weld bimodals onto aftermaket exhausts but i was wondering which path you were going down.

I had a full Difillipo big boy 3" system with 1 7/8 extractors on my cammed E3 GTS but didn't really like the sound
It just seemed to be loud for loud sake and didn't really rumble.
When i down shift early i wanted to hear a rolling rumble but instead it just sounded like a loud straining noise.
Each to their own through of course.

I want to upgrade but I don't want to modify my existing exhaust so i can put the car back to stock down the track if i want to.
Thats why I'm looking at the xforce exhaust @3rspecB purchased recently which will marry straight up to the factory mufflers.
https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au...-1-1-3/4in-Primary-Bimodal-Commodore-VE-VF-SS

Hopefully he will be able to install it after this crap lockdown in Vic and post some videos of what it sounds like

I am also thinking of going down the customer made exhaust also but I am really undecided.

 

[Kakodaemon]

Double post

 

[lmfvf2ssredlineute]

When you give it some stick the LS engines never sound like the old school 308/304's or the old Cleveland's and SBC for that matter.

The different firing order of the LS engines from the 308 changes the sound significantly in my pinion.




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it depends on what type of exhaust is fitted to the engine rather than the firing order, most 70s v8s had different firing orders and sounds depending on manufacturer
the old 253- 308 has a odd firing order 1-2-7-8-4-5-6-3 and always had a barky sound with a sports system
ford 302-351 cleveland firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 street creed 6000-7000 grand sounds like heaven, the best sounding by far
289-429-460 firing order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
most mopar 318,360 426 ect 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
283 327 350 chev 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
ls3 firing order 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
there's lots of different firing orders and all sound different
with the right exhaust and headers , and i have tried plenty over the years the difilippo long tube and cat back sound the best by far on ls commodores, wish i could record the sound in my cars but i,m not a tech head, too old for that crap, but my manual ls3 sedan running up through the gears sounds similar to a 283 chevy i had in a hr backed by a muncie 30 years ago, a deep throbbing note
you can see most old school v8s had varying firing orders, you just need to match them with the right system for the best sound,
remember a bog stock factory standard 308 in the mid 70s, flooring one to the boards sounded more like a vacuum cleaner, add the right sports system and what a difference it makes
try going for a ride in a difilippo ls3, they sound great, they are the most popular for a reason

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

The Holden V8 and LSx have the same firing sequence, LRLRRLRL so it's not really the firing order that changes the note. Number of valves in the head and the shape of the chambers has an effect. The shape of the intake does as well. You can get an LSx to sound "old school" with the right exhaust on it.

 

[White Swan]

The Holden V8 and LSx have the same firing sequence, LRLRRLRL so it's not really the firing order that changes the note. Number of valves in the head and the shape of the chambers has an effect. The shape of the intake does as well. You can get an LSx to sound "old school" with the right exhaust on it.

Great, what exhaust brand and components do I need to make my LS3 sound just like an old school Cleveland with headers and hotdogs like back in the 1970's?

Or an old school 308 as that would be cool as well.





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[panhead]

it depends on what type of exhaust is fitted to the engine rather than the firing order, most 70s v8s had different firing orders and sounds depending on manufacturer
the old 253- 308 has a odd firing order 1-2-7-8-4-5-6-3 and always had a barky sound with a sports system
ford 302-351 cleveland firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 street creed 6000-7000 grand sounds like heaven, the best sounding by far
289-429-460 firing order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
most mopar 318,360 426 ect 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
283 327 350 chev 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
ls3 firing order 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
there's lots of different firing orders and all sound different
with the right exhaust and headers , and i have tried plenty over the years the difilippo long tube and cat back sound the best by far on ls commodores, wish i could record the sound in my cars but i,m not a tech head, too old for that crap, but my manual ls3 sedan running up through the gears sounds similar to a 283 chevy i had in a hr backed by a muncie 30 years ago, a deep throbbing note
you can see most old school v8s had varying firing orders, you just need to match them with the right system for the best sound,
remember a bog stock factory standard 308 in the mid 70s, flooring one to the boards sounded more like a vacuum cleaner, add the right sports system and what a difference it makes
try going for a ride in a difilippo ls3, they sound great, they are the most popular for a reason

I’m no spring chicken and definitely no novice when it comes to Chev, Holden & Ford engines and exhaust systems, I won’t comment on Mopar as I’ve not owned one but I have heard a few back in the day when many of the old school cars were running nothing more than headers with dual hotdogs.

I still have a few of the old school engines in cars parked in my shed and will stand by what I said, firing order does play a part in how the engine sounds and no modern LS engines sounds like the old school stuff.

I don’t have the words to describe how my cammed Cleveland sounds at start up but it hits your ears like someone has cracked a whip and when anyone particularly car guys who are not accustom to them hears it for the first time they’re in awe, except of course some of my neighbours.

Think of a Harley starting and you’re in the ball park.

Some of my older cars have been treated to quieter exhausts for driveability sake but they still don’t sound like modern LS engines.

I’ve tried plenty of exhaust brands and combos on my LS powered cars as well and still haven’t really found that old school sound.

I’ve been told many times it’s the firing order of those old engines and my ears believe it.

Maybe your ears hear something completely different.

Firing order affects the vibrations, sound and evenness of power output from the engine

The firing order used on early small block and big block Chevy V8's is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.

Late model LS engines use a revised firing order of 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3 to smooth out the motor and eliminate the problem of the number 5 and 7 cylinders firing right next to one another that caused fuel and air distribution issues on earlier engines.

The way the sound oscillates, the frequencies, the irregularity in the sequencing and the spacing of exhaust pulses are impacted by firing order which can produce dominant frequencies.

These days car manufacturers spend millions on noise cancelling in engines to tweak tones and frequencies and the firing order impacts on many components and is one among many other tricks used to change the sound from the engine.

Though there’s not much point in arguing over it as the issue has been in dispute for years and do doubt your argument is probably just as strong as mine.

But in my mind from my engineering background, when you change something then something has been changed, when you change the firing order you’ve changed the sound.

Can you tweak an exhaust to try an emulate that old school sound, maybe you can but maybe you just get close but not the real thing.

That’s just my opinion.






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[panhead]

The Holden V8 and LSx have the same firing sequence, LRLRRLRL so it's not really the firing order that changes the note. Number of valves in the head and the shape of the chambers has an effect. The shape of the intake does as well. You can get an LSx to sound "old school" with the right exhaust on it.

I too would love to know what setup and specific installation work is required to get an LS to sound old school as I've been chasing it for years.






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