plenum spacer/s, are they worth it?

[vxcp]

Without wanting to get into the whole yes/no argument, and not defending Sabbaths attitude here, I do agree with him that if you are selling a product, you kind of need to provide facts and figures that fit your particular product in the application you are advertising it as being suited to.

I'm assuming, and its only an assumption based on the statements by Sabbath, that no such facts or figures have been made available.

Even if this is only a few simple dyno charts with before and after figures on it, that would be useful for marketing purposes surely? If you feel it has more benefit in combination with other mods as well, then additional facts to show those improvements would be useful?

I assume when you design these parts to create various effects and improvements, you test them in some way? Perhaps those figures could be made available. I realise the theoretical parts can be proven, but I could redesign a plenum chamber to change the gas flow according to known and accepted theories, but make it worse in the attempt too (since of course I know nothing about it and have no means of testing any changes I make).

It would make good marketing sense to prove that your mods actually have the desired effect. Eventually word of mouth and endorsements just arent enough.

I have figures of MACE's spacers here 12mm plenum spacer and 25mm manifold spacer b4 and after. Your welcome MACE.

 

[MACE]

I see there was no response to getting one thrown my way.
Thats OK I'll just have to buy it instead.

I do have a query though. I was reading the item description on your website and reminding myself of the prices for the 12mm + 12mm (incase that seems confusing to some readers, I mean the 12mm plennum spacer and the 12mm intake manifold spacer).
What is the better way to go? 12mm PLNM + 12mm INTAKE OR 25mm INTAKE without the PLENNUM spacer. Or both at 25. I realize and know about the bonnet clearance issue after 25mm But can work around it IF I decide to go for the 2 25's.
I am probably not going to be able to afford the 2 YET! but am wondering If I should just get 12mm Intake Spacer and maybe later the 12mm Plennum spacer. I could squeeze the cost of the 25mm Intake spacer but then would most likely not get the plennum spacer at all or at least not for quite some time. Sorry about the big essay and hope it's clear enough.

In regards to parts for testing, there is a possibility we could work something out I guess depending on what it was and how it was structured. I can't promising anything though. Best to draft something up in an email

As Jonah 101 has mentioned, we recommend a 12mm plenum spacer and a 25mm manifold insulator. Running a 25mm plenum spacer can reasonably dampen throttle response, however running a larger throttle body a revised tune does sort this out.

Without wanting to get into the whole yes/no argument, and not defending Sabbaths attitude here, I do agree with him that if you are selling a product, you kind of need to provide facts and figures that fit your particular product in the application you are advertising it as being suited to.

I'm assuming, and its only an assumption based on the statements by Sabbath, that no such facts or figures have been made available.

Even if this is only a few simple dyno charts with before and after figures on it, that would be useful for marketing purposes surely? If you feel it has more benefit in combination with other mods as well, then additional facts to show those improvements would be useful?

I assume when you design these parts to create various effects and improvements, you test them in some way? Perhaps those figures could be made available. I realise the theoretical parts can be proven, but I could redesign a plenum chamber to change the gas flow according to known and accepted theories, but make it worse in the attempt too (since of course I know nothing about it and have no means of testing any changes I make).

It would make good marketing sense to prove that your mods actually have the desired effect. Eventually word of mouth and endorsements just arent enough.

“Without wanting to get into the whole yes/no argument, and not defending Sabbaths attitude here, I do agree with him that if you are selling a product, you kind of need to provide facts and figures that fit your particular product in the application you are advertising it as being suited to.

I'm assuming, and its only an assumption based on the statements by Sabbath, that no such facts or figures have been made available.
Even if this is only a few simple dyno charts with before and after figures on it, that would be useful for marketing purposes surely? If you feel it has more benefit in combination with other mods as well, then additional facts to show those improvements would be useful?"
I definitely agree with the concept of asking questions if a person is genuinely interested in the concept/product. Anything else, and it's not really helpful and is a waste of time. In this case I MUCH prefer to be left alone

This aside if you read careful, I did supply a great deal of info, may not have been the answers that people liked but were answered the best I could. I could supply more info but where does it in?

“I assume when you design these parts to create various effects and improvements, you test them in some way?”
We do, even if it means working with others

“Perhaps those figures could be made available"
If we can justify releasing our IP, then definitely.

“I realise the theoretical parts can be proven, but I could redesign a plenum chamber to change the gas flow according to known and accepted theories, but make it worse in the attempt too (since of course I know nothing about it and have no means of testing any changes I make).”
Depending on the theory you apply and in what context, good practical results can come from theoretical ones if you know what you’re doing.

“It would make good marketing sense to prove that your mods actually have the desired effect. Eventually word of mouth and endorsements just arent enough.”
I do understand where you’re coming from; bear in mind though these products are about 5 years old now so there is a fair amount of impartial info out there from enthusiasts with these products, good bad indifferent. I think that this speaks more volumes.

In saying that though, there should be a write up in St33t Commodores over the coming months about a VS V6 resto build, presenting additional info on this and other products, which had been organised months ago. So despite the age of these engines/vehicles we’re still developing/testing them, with more parts to come in the next 6-12 months

 

[MACE]

Reading this topic was a lot of fun and at the same time irritated me, Mace has the proof they improve your cars performance but u still doubt him and if u look of the MACE part in these forums ull be able to read about peoples experience and input about MACE's products in general. I myself have a vx commodore and brought the spacers 12mm plenum spacer and 25 mm manifold spacer felt the difference in fuel economy was great as for torque there was a big noticeable gain i was amazed its a good mod and i recommend it, however if ur looking for power out of these then dont bother they will probably give u 1 kw or less but if ur car is slow off the mark then these are for you.

My dyno run b4 and after spacers, massive boost in torque. No its not dead standard it has twin 2.5 exhaust, pacemakers, high flow cats, spacers and CAI and ''NO TUNE''....would of got more if i had a single exhaust system though =(

Thanks feedback vxcp

 

[ephect]

Vxcp, there are 2 days between ur runs, what was the temp on both days?

I am impartial to the whole debate, I don't have the product.. but the money back guarrentee kinda is a no brainer to trying this.. Not happy sent it back

 

[vxcp]

Thanks feedback vxcp

Haha its all good happy to help. Especially when people that haven't even tried your products are trying to tell you that they don't benefit and its a waste of money and what not.

 

[vxcp]

Vxcp, there are 2 days between ur runs, what was the temp on both days?

I am impartial to the whole debate, I don't have the product.. but the money back guarrentee kinda is a no brainer to trying this.. Not happy sent it back

Only two days because it was a saturday and they shut on me b4 i could get it in lol and they were evenly same temp, which were very hot lol i was sweating putting them in. But yeah to answer your question same temp really being summer and all. And with the money back thing its pretty good and the dyno run only cost me 40 bucks so if thats wat ur path is then MACE would defiantly refund you but i guarantee you that u wont need a dyno run to notice the differnece

 

[DAKSTER]

I have figures of MACE's spacers here 12mm plenum spacer and 25mm manifold spacer b4 and after. Your welcome MACE.

I'm not anti Mace at all. His reply pretty much addressed all I asked quite well.

I appreciate your data too, but heres another scenario. Lets just say I have a stock ecotec and not a lot of money to spend. People are recommending the 12mm Mace spacer to me as a performance and/or economy enhancement. What I'd like to see is a graph for any improvements made to that stock engine by simply adding the spacer. Not both spacers, pacemakers, high flow cats, CAI etc as well.

Sure, I could read the forums and get opinions. Does ' I put a pod on my stock buick and it blows away 5L V8's ' sound familiar? I dont want opinions, I want facts. Mace has an excellent reputation and I have no doubt they make a superior product. I'm simply saying I would be more inclined to buy if those facts were readily available.

I've raised the same questions with CAI too, if they actually make a difference I'd love to see some factual data on a stock engine with no other changes than just a CAI. I dont believe thats unreasonable?

 

[jas98]

well i have to say, a mate of mine had a vr commodore with a ecotec from a vx in it, he put the motor in the vr, went ok, put on a fair few mace products, larger throttle body, think he acutally had a 25mm plenum spacer and a 25 mm manifold spacer (not sure if it was a 12mm plenum spacer or 25mm) and the largest rockers at the time, also it was a stock vs tune in it as it had a vs engine in it before hand that had a big end bearing problem or something (i still have that engin for parts haha) anyway, this thing ####ing hammerd after all those parts, i mean seriously i dont care about this hole talk on "u cant beat a v8 in a modified v6 that only has bolt on mods" hes car was ####ing fast on take off (was manual). also even though he used to be a quick driver/fast take offs all the time he still managed nearly 800-900 on a tank off fuel which i couldn't believe but he proved it to me

just saying i do believe these products do make quite abit of difference and i also stated in my oringinal post that i wanted to hear form people that have actually installed these on there cars not people that are trying say maces products are **** and that they r WOOD, when you dont know what it actually is, plus you have never installed one (its not wood!)

so i please ask for people to not post if they have not installed or tried this product

thankyou

 

[vxcp]

I'm not anti Mace at all. His reply pretty much addressed all I asked quite well.

I appreciate your data too, but heres another scenario. Lets just say I have a stock ecotec and not a lot of money to spend. People are recommending the 12mm Mace spacer to me as a performance and/or economy enhancement. What I'd like to see is a graph for any improvements made to that stock engine by simply adding the spacer. Not both spacers, pacemakers, high flow cats, CAI etc as well.

Sure, I could read the forums and get opinions. Does ' I put a pod on my stock buick and it blows away 5L V8's ' sound familiar? I dont want opinions, I want facts. Mace has an excellent reputation and I have no doubt they make a superior product. I'm simply saying I would be more inclined to buy if those facts were readily available.

I've raised the same questions with CAI too, if they actually make a difference I'd love to see some factual data on a stock engine with no other changes than just a CAI. I dont believe thats unreasonable?

Im sure MACE would love to do that if you supplied the car for them to test it on i dont understand why they would go out of there way buying all different stock models of commodores just to make you happy, at the end of the day the results are there and it may not be from stock cars, but its there. They are called mods for a reason, obvious things are first b4 considering by MACE products would be ur extractors and exhaust then move to MACE and it WILL benifit you and at a cheap cost compaired to everywhere else. And also MACE do refunds on items that you think isnt performing as if it wasnt there, so i suggest maybe try it out if it doesn't provide im sure they will refund your product. AND YES you will gain torque how much who knows and YES you will gain fuel economy. CAI makes a noise, increases throttle response and low down torque. Like i said supply the car they will do it for you. At the end of the day there called mods/performance parts which modifies your engine in many different ways to increase throttle response. torque, power and fuel economy.

 

[DAKSTER]

i dont understand why they would go out of there way buying all different stock models of commodores just to make you happy, at the end of the day the results are there and it may not be from stock cars, but its there.

Firstly, they dont have to buy them, they already have them. What do you suppose they test mods on? Even assuming they dont have a stock car to perform each mod on separately, how many stock test motors do you suppose they actually need to have available to suit the products they manufacture? How many variants of Ecotec and Alloytec exist after all? Most of their stuff as far as I know is for Ecotec, so you would only need a couple of test engines to have that covered.

Secondly, yes, if you want to sell a product in quantity, its simply good business to have quality data available on all the stuff you make, both as a combo and as stand alone products. It proves proper development apart from anything else.

Thirdly, I have stated already I dont have a problem with Mace, as far as I know they are quality products. I just think it would be interesting to see some actual data rather than second opinions.

You may remember a recent thread regarding a couple of knobs demonstrating on youtube how to install a pod filter, and waxing lyrical about the supposed benefits it gave their Excel. Thats the kind of data I dont need, I prefer to see some actual figures and measurements.

I am out of this thread now, I simply posed a couple questions which Mace answered to my satisfaction. I've done that now and have no plans to get into any pointless arguments.