Rear wheel camber on Monaro.

[figjam]

I have been paying attention to the comments, and I don’t want to get anyone offside here, but my comments in post #3 have come true, so, I am off to what may appear to be a bit of a ramble.

Ramble # 1 ……. All the comments that I have read here seem to me to be related to the front wheels, which undergo more operating variations and stresses than the rear wheels, which simplistically should be set at 0deg toe, and 0 deg camber, as they (theoretically) do not alter the steering of the car.
The Commodore rear end is ugly, compromised engineering, resulting in angle changes during normal operation, so, if the toe and camber were set at 0deg while static, how much does this vary during the up/down movement arc of the wheel.?

Ramble # 2……. This where my maths are questionable, so I could be way wrong here.
If the overall diameter of the tyre is 658mm, width is 245mm, and camber 12mm neg, I calculate that just over 4mm of tread has to be worn away on the inside of the tyre before the outside tread starts to wear. (Ignoring the toe, and sideways scrub effects .. I know this does not happen in real life.)

Ramble # 3 ….. A few years ago, the Monaro failed the annual NSW WRC, due to ‘uneven wear on the rear tyres’, being that the inside edges were worn. This led to a rather heated debate with the ‘inspector’ who failed it. I insisted that the tyres were not worn enough to warrant a fail.
But, he was right, and I was wrong ……… you can’t argue with little Adolf Hitlers.
Luckily, I had two identical brand new spares at home, on identical rims. I threw them in the boot, and took them to show him that the brand new tread also appeared to be worn, due to the asymmetrical pattern. But, he was still right, and I was still wrong. So, I fitted the new wheels, got the RWC, and bade him goodbye. Those rejected tyres proved to be good for RWC for a few more years, and a lot more kms.

As I now don’t have any matching spares for the wheels I have, I don’t want to be required to scrap good tyres on some officious b******s whim.

All this should be resolved within the next week when I get a wheel alignment (and replaced bits).

 

[vc commodore]

Yes that is correct, but again, you're ignoring the effect of camber. Toe doesn't negate excessive camber digging the inner edge into the road. I literally put a picture up where the outer edge of the tyre wasn't even touching the road to demonstrate my point.

Or better yet, tell me how much camber the car in your toe picture is running.

I've never debated that camber causes wear issues....I'm fully aware camber wears tyres and the more camber the more accelerated the wear is.....I have also agreed with others that have mentioned this on a couple of occasions.

Adding in a little more toe, can help reduce the effects of camber. But that seems to have been missed. It was also mentioned, that toe will wear tyres quicker than camber....This is when I mentioned IRS Commodores and how IRS Commodore owners often mention about accelerated inner edge wear, especially when lowered and I also mentioned than lowering the car increases TOE IN.

My debate ALL along has been, how can TOE IN wear the inner edge....Even after I posted pictures up POINTING OUT about how the tyres point with TOE IN, it was still said TOE IN wears out inner edges. I am still waiting a response to this question...And to repeat the question...HOW CAN TOE IN WEAR THE INNER EDGES?, especially when it is a clear as day, the outer edge of the tyre is being pushed along the surface, more than the rest of the tyre

 

[vc commodore]

I have been paying attention to the comments, and I don’t want to get anyone offside here, but my comments in post #3 have come true, so, I am off to what may appear to be a bit of a ramble.

Ramble # 1 ……. All the comments that I have read here seem to me to be related to the front wheels, which undergo more operating variations and stresses than the rear wheels, which simplistically should be set at 0deg toe, and 0 deg camber, as they (theoretically) do not alter the steering of the car.
The Commodore rear end is ugly, compromised engineering, resulting in angle changes during normal operation, so, if the toe and camber were set at 0deg while static, how much does this vary during the up/down movement arc of the wheel.?

Ramble # 2……. This where my maths are questionable, so I could be way wrong here.
If the overall diameter of the tyre is 658mm, width is 245mm, and camber 12mm neg, I calculate that just over 4mm of tread has to be worn away on the inside of the tyre before the outside tread starts to wear. (Ignoring the toe, and sideways scrub effects .. I know this does not happen in real life.)

Ramble # 3 ….. A few years ago, the Monaro failed the annual NSW WRC, due to ‘uneven wear on the rear tyres’, being that the inside edges were worn. This led to a rather heated debate with the ‘inspector’ who failed it. I insisted that the tyres were not worn enough to warrant a fail.
But, he was right, and I was wrong ……… you can’t argue with little Adolf Hitlers.
Luckily, I had two identical brand new spares at home, on identical rims. I threw them in the boot, and took them to show him that the brand new tread also appeared to be worn, due to the asymmetrical pattern. But, he was still right, and I was still wrong. So, I fitted the new wheels, got the RWC, and bade him goodbye. Those rejected tyres proved to be good for RWC for a few more years, and a lot more kms.

As I now don’t have any matching spares for the wheels I have, I don’t want to be required to scrap good tyres on some officious b******s whim.

All this should be resolved within the next week when I get a wheel alignment (and replaced bits).

The comments are related to the rear end...IRS equipped Commodores (which you asked about) do have camber and I think yours may have a toe adjuster....The question is, whether you need an aftermarket kit and which one, to adjust camber, as there is no factory adjustment for camber with your car.....

Camber and toe effect how quick the tyres wear....And if you are like the majority of people, you prefer to get maximum life from your tyres

 

[vc commodore]

look at wear and adjust - meanwhile the customer's tyres scrub out? This is what the local mechanics did to mine. I'll never get them to touch the suspension ever again because it was all guesswork. cost me a tyre and panel work.

Surprisingly, you have to look at the wear patterns, to adjust the settings accordingly....Why? Because the adjustments are in fractions and adjust a fraction too far one way or the other, tyre wear is accelerated, which means one pissed off owner

Oh and the settings provided by the manufacturer have a fairly large scope, so it's really not a case of place it within that scope and she'll be apples

 

[delcowizzid]

When its toed in the inner edge of the tyre is trying to turn in a tighter radius circle than the outside of the tyre so its scrubbing more than the outside .go set your car to 3mm toe in on each side and drive it for a week tell me which side of your tyres is rounding off the shoulder and feathering already

 

[vc commodore]

When its toed in the inner edge of the tyre is trying to turn in a tighter radius circle than the outside of the tyre so its scrubbing more than the outside .go set your car to 3mm toe in on each side and drive it for a week tell me which side of your tyres is rounding off the shoulder and feathering already

I'll pass on 3MM toe in each side unless the camber is around the camber on the picture RJK posted up....You'd definately round the outer shoulder after a week.

So I'm gathering you set all your cars to toe out?

 

[mpower]

Surprisingly, you have to look at the wear patterns, to adjust the settings accordingly....Why? Because the adjustments are in fractions and adjust a fraction too far one way or the other, tyre wear is accelerated, which means one pissed off owner

Oh and the settings provided by the manufacturer have a fairly large scope, so it's really not a case of place it within that scope and she'll be apples

i just don't buy this. the suspension shop i went to told me that the alignment was so bad they had to take everything back to basics rip out the stupid spacers and checking balance of all 4 wheels and do the job properly as it was all over the place - been about 10,000 since, no issues have arisen. This gave me the confidence to take my other car in for new shocks. They had them in in no-time at all. adjusted everything as it needed to be including fixing another steering wheel that wasn't straight (this is a pet peeve of mine). came back after 5000 to double check everything and on return to do this no adjustment needed - done right, first time.

you're right uneven tyre wear does piss you off. i've had it, from ppl who were pretty much just guessing.

 

[vc commodore]

i just don't buy this. the suspension shop i went to told me that the alignment was so bad they had to take everything back to basics rip out the stupid spacers and checking balance of all 4 wheels and do the job properly as it was all over the place - been about 10,000 since, no issues have arisen. This gave me the confidence to take my other car in for new shocks. They had them in in no-time at all. adjusted everything as it needed to be including fixing another steering wheel that wasn't straight (this is a pet peeve of mine). came back after 5000 to double check everything and on return to do this no adjustment needed - done right, first time.

you're right uneven tyre wear does piss you off. i've had it, from ppl who were pretty much just guessing.

Why balance wheels, when it had a tyre wear issue?

If you check the scope that is given with settings, it is big....1MM toe can cause tyre wear...1/2 of camber can cause tyre wear....

As for a double check of setting after 5,000K will show up a slight mis judgement of settings. It will only be slight feathering, but it will be there.....

Personally I was taught to check tyre wear patterns, prior to aligning...But hey, if your happy, good....Upto you if you believe me or not

 

[mpower]

Why balance wheels, when it had a tyre wear issue?

If you check the scope that is given with settings, it is big....1MM toe can cause tyre wear...1/2 of camber can cause tyre wear....

As for a double check of setting after 5,000K will show up a slight mis judgement of settings. It will only be slight feathering, but it will be there.....

Personally I was taught to check tyre wear patterns, prior to aligning...But hey, if your happy, good....Upto you if you believe me or not

for a start if you were listening one of the tyres scrubbed out the previous mob did such a bad job. So new tyre - while you're there check them all, it's called being thorough.

If you saw a car come through that had unecessary spacers, scrubbed out tyres, damaged guard would you not do everything?

That's the difference, the local mechanic was crap - suspension place - good.

 

[vc commodore]

for a start if you were listening one of the tyres scrubbed out the previous mob did such a bad job. So new tyre - while you're there check them all, it's called being thorough.

If you saw a car come through that had unecessary spacers, scrubbed out tyres, damaged guard would you not do everything?

That's the difference, the local mechanic was crap - suspension place - good.

You do what the customer asks you to do.....****, if I went and balanced a customers wheels just for the hell of it, and they didn't want it, they'd crack a wally and probably post up on here, what a mongrel I was for doing something they didn't want done.

Now the question begs....Did you ask them to balance the lot....Or did they ask you IF you wanted the balance on all of them checked? Or did they just go ahead and balance them just for the hell of it? I can understand balancing the one/s that may have damaged the guard/s, but the rest I can't

Oh and I'm so sorry, I didn't hear what you said about your snot box....The sound wasn't enabled on the computer