Rear wheel camber on Monaro.

[delcowizzid]

I've aligned a lot of cars and setup custom chassis that don't even have any settings in a machine to go off of .done many cars for engineering certification and providing full bump steer measurements and graphing to pass low volume vehicle certification for one off custom car builds track cars drag cars circle track stuff .I know my way round a wheel alignment

 

[delcowizzid]

I even correct toe and camber on live axle diffs with strategic weld beads on the tubes and shimming of the 5th member for those customers who want corrections done mostly the drag guys who want to launch straight and not have any unnessicary tyre friction from toe in the rear

 

[vc commodore]

.I know my way round a wheel alignment

If you do, why haven't you answered my questions? That is, how does TOE IN effect the inner edge?

If excessive camber wears from the outer edge to the inner edge, why do IRS equipped commodores suffer from inner edge wear? Why is the inner edge wear accelerated, when the car is lowered, when you are adding more TOE IN?


The article I have linked, shows how a tyre leans, depending on the setting applied...

 

[Pollushon]

Delco used the perfect analogy for your brain to do the rest. Maybe try skiing.

Even better if you own a bike, turn the wheel slightly but force it forward on dirt and feel the resistance and look at the pattern it leaves.

I don't think it's rocket surgery to comprehend that if a wheel isn't aligned with its direction of travel/rotation it will create friction and therefore wear on the leading edge.

 

[delcowizzid]

The camber is all ready making the inner edge touch the ground more so the outer isn't dragging.the fronts toe in drags the inner cause the caster leans the wheel assembly backwards.look at a camber toe adjusting kit they can do max 2 degrees of camber adjustment but 16mm of toe adjustment

 

[_R_J_K_]

And now we get to IRS equipped Commodores...It is common knowledge, that lowering these cars, creates accelerated inner edge wear.....Using your theory, that toe effects tyre wear more than camber and knowing full well, lowering the car creates more negative camber and more toe in, how can the inner edge wear quicker, when the above link shows toe in would accelerate outer edge wear?

Because the negative camber lifts the outer edge off the road? You seem to be ignoring the effect that camber has on contact patch, and making the assumption that the entire face is always on the road with equal pressure across the entire patch.

Let's take this exaggerated example, sure it will wear the inner edge because of (extremely excessive) camber, but adding toe in will destroy the inner edge much faster, and the outer edge doesn't have much in the way of pressure on it. Commodore isn't this bad but the same principal applies. I really don't understand how toe in would help at all.

 

[Ccoastcalais]

There is also motive force to consider. When your rear wheel drive vehicle accelerates the toe changes towards the negative. I personally give a small amount of toe in relative to the amount of negative camber.

 

[vc commodore]

Delco used the perfect analogy for your brain to do the rest. Maybe try skiing.

Even better if you own a bike, turn the wheel slightly but force it forward on dirt and feel the resistance and look at the pattern it leaves.

I don't think it's rocket surgery to comprehend that if a wheel isn't aligned with its direction of travel/rotation it will create friction and therefore wear on the leading edge.

Mate, my brain is working....I showed in the attachment, that TOE IN causes the outer edge to drag....So how can the outer edge dragging cause the inner edge to wear quicker, which is what Delco is claiming and it seems you are following?

Using your dirt bike tyre principal, by turning, are you claiming the edge furtherist away from the front of the bike, when moving in a forward direction, would wear quicker? Or would the edge closer to the front of the bike, when moving in a forward direction wear quicker?

 

[vc commodore]

Because the negative camber lifts the outer edge off the road? You seem to be ignoring the effect that camber has on contact patch, and making the assumption that the entire face is always on the road with equal pressure across the entire patch.

Let's take this exaggerated example, sure it will wear the inner edge because of (extremely excessive) camber, but adding toe in will destroy the inner edge much faster, and the outer edge doesn't have much in the way of pressure on it. Commodore isn't this bad but the same principal applies. I really don't understand how toe in would help at all.

Yes I agree, the inner edge is dragging with negative camber, causing the inner to wear more than the outer....which seems to be different to what Delco is saying...Check the posting he made, just prior to mine yesterday night...How ever you seem to have missed what direction the wheels point, with TOE IN...

Then you look at how the geometery works....More negative camber, increases the TOE IN, yet toe wears tyres quicker than camber....So, how come, IRS equipped cars when lowered, accelerate inner edge wear, especially with no toe adjustment at all when TOE IN wears the outer edge, as shown by the link I put up?

 

[vc commodore]

There is also motive force to consider. When your rear wheel drive vehicle accelerates the toe changes towards the negative. I personally give a small amount of toe in relative to the amount of negative camber.

To see if I am on the same page as you, by giving a slight amount of TOE IN, you are saying, the distance between the front of the tyres is smaller, than the distance between the back of the same tyre and prior to the forward momenium, the outer edge would be weighted slightly more than the inner edge?