Rear wheel camber on Monaro.

[delcowizzid]

Toe in doesn't wear the outer edge I don't know where you are getting that from

 

[_R_J_K_]

Then you look at how the geometery works....More negative camber, increases the TOE IN, yet toe wears tyres quicker than camber....So, how come, IRS equipped cars when lowered, accelerate inner edge wear, when TOE IN wears the outer edge, as shown by the link I put up?

Because negative camber doesn't necessarily increase toe, being slammed does which has the side effect of negative camber (and even then it depends on the car). Negative camber causes there to be far more pressure on the inner edge rather than the outer edge, so if there's heaps of pressure on the inner and none on the outer it's pretty obvious what will happen, and then if you add toe in to that.

For somebody who slagged off somebody else for using a computer screen to wheel align you seem to be relying a lot on general internet facts and links that don't cater to the scenario you're outlining. You're just seeing that A=B, and B=C, and saying that therefore A=C which isn't the case.

 

[vc commodore]

woops

 

[vc commodore]

Toe in doesn't wear the outer edge I don't know where you are getting that from

Look at the link I posted up

Better still, check out how the tyres point, in the picture, especially with the TOE IN picture and how they point and then ask how I get the idea

 

[vc commodore]

Because negative camber doesn't necessarily increase toe, being slammed does which has the side effect of negative camber (and even then it depends on the car). Negative camber causes there to be far more pressure on the inner edge rather than the outer edge, so if there's heaps of pressure on the inner and none on the outer it's pretty obvious what will happen, and then if you add toe in to that.

For somebody who slagged off somebody else for using a computer screen to wheel align you seem to be relying a lot on general internet facts and links that don't cater to the scenario you're outlining. You're just seeing that A=B, and B=C, and saying that therefore A=C which isn't the case.

Yes, I agree, negative camber puts pressure on the inner edge, which would cause inner edge wear....Now check out the picture I posted up, taking note of the TOE IN picture and tell me how can TOE IN wear the inner edge, when it is plain, the outer edge of the tyre is taking most of the pressure.

And I've produced a picture off the web, (yes) to demonstrate how the wheels point with different alignment settings, which does cater for the TOE scenario, which is what the discussion is all about.

As for slamming an IRS equipped commodore and the effects of the edge wear....Mate, do some checking around for yourself and ask what wear issues people are having as a result and get back to me.....Also understand how the geometry of the car works, when raising and lowering the car and how it effects all the alignment settings...Target Pre-VX series 11 owners especially and those that don't have an aftermarket kit fitted...

Or better still, ask yourself, why when raising or lowering a car, the camber and toe changes and in what way

 

[_R_J_K_]

Yes, I agree, negative camber puts pressure on the inner edge, which would cause inner edge wear....Now check out the picture I posted up, taking note of the TOE IN picture and tell me how can TOE IN wear the inner edge, when it is plain, the outer edge of the tyre is taking most of the pressure.

Well, I can attest from experience as an IRS owner. I don't know how much more plainly I can say it. You can even see in camber diagram in the picture you posted that the inner edge touches the ground more. The diagrams you're using exist in a perfect world for demonstration where camber doesn't exist for the toe demonstration, it's to demonstrate a general concept. Dialling more toe-in isn't going to magically even out the pressure across the tyre face or give you more contact patch.

Raising and lowering a car isn't relevant when you make the claim that camber directly causes toe in. I can change the camber arms in my Silvia and give it massive camber at stock height and the toe won't change. Slam it with the stock arms and it will toe in massively.

 

[vc commodore]

Well, I can attest from experience as an IRS owner. I don't know how much more plainly I can say it. You can even see in camber diagram in the picture you posted that the inner edge touches the ground more. The diagrams you're using exist in a perfect world for demonstration where camber doesn't exist for the toe demonstration, it's to demonstrate a general concept. Dialling more toe-in isn't going to magically even out the pressure across the tyre face or give you more contact patch.

Raising and lowering a car isn't relevant when you make the claim that camber directly causes toe in. I can change the camber arms in my Silvia and give it massive camber at stock height and the toe won't change. Slam it with the stock arms and it will toe in massively.

Here, I'll spell it out.

Picture shows TOE IN has the weight on the outer edge

It is being claimed TOE IN scrubs the INNER EDGE

Please explain, because it goes against any sort of logic

How toe effects camber...Fix one end of a round object (which is how the spring is held in place in a round about way) and push from the centre....Figure out how which part moves and in what direction...

 

[Ccoastcalais]

I'm saying as the car accelerates the geometry changes, when the car turns it changes, as soon as someone sits in the car it changes. My view is that specs are a guide only. There is no exact science to alignments. I look at the wear & adjust accordingly.

 

[mpower]

look at wear and adjust - meanwhile the customer's tyres scrub out? This is what the local mechanics did to mine. I'll never get them to touch the suspension ever again because it was all guesswork. cost me a tyre and panel work.

 

[_R_J_K_]

Picture shows TOE IN has the weight on the outer edge

It is being claimed TOE IN scrubs the INNER EDGE

Please explain, because it goes against any sort of logic

Yes that is correct, but again, you're ignoring the effect of camber. Toe doesn't negate excessive camber digging the inner edge into the road. I literally put a picture up where the outer edge of the tyre wasn't even touching the road to demonstrate my point.

Or better yet, tell me how much camber the car in your toe picture is running.