The New Commodore VFII is Coming

[Forg]

SARRAS, do you think an American brand can have badge cred in Australia?
ie. that Cadillacs (regardless of whether they have Holden badges or Cadillac badges) will ever be considered anything more than Statemans/Caprices have been; and therefore, considered to be less worthy of showing-off to the neighbours or the work-colleagues than a BMW 320i?

 

[crew_man]

SARRAS, do you think an American brand can have badge cred in Australia?
ie. that Cadillacs (regardless of whether they have Holden badges or Cadillac badges) will ever be considered anything more than Statemans/Caprices have been?

It depends on the product - the Statesman's/Caprices are limousines, whereas Cadillac also makes a lot of smaller, euro-fighting cars, like the CTS-V etc.

As a Halo product it makes sense, if the price point is correct

 

[Forg]

They'll have to do a LOT with their dealership network to convince anyone that there's anything "luxury" going on, too.

 

[crew_man]

Possibly, but then again they wouldn't be a volume seller - they would be a halo car at the top of the range, that provides brand DNA - in the same way that Lexus and Toyota used to operate together. Now they are separate car companies essentially which is something that developed with the Australian market.

 

[SARRAS]

SARRAS, do you think an American brand can have badge cred in Australia?
ie. that Cadillacs (regardless of whether they have Holden badges or Cadillac badges) will ever be considered anything more than Statemans/Caprices have been; and therefore, considered to be less worthy of showing-off to the neighbours or the work-colleagues than a BMW 320i?

My point is that with Cadillac, they've got a better credibility chance than with Chevrolet. And the product is there - the V series Cadillacs are some seriously meaty sports sedans. Cost will be high but I offer two counters - HSV's are ALREADY expensive and they sell well and look around you folks - its a world where more money is being spent on cars than it would seem was the case before. So many mums on school runs in Porsche Macans or Mercedes or BMW whatever sedans - it seems that there's much more being sold in the $100-$150k market segment than ever before and Holden is just not a player there and they need to be. AS WELL as having the Holden Insignia-dore.

 

[Forg]

SARRAS, I guess I reserve the right to be sceptical ... you could sort-of compare those perfomancy Cadillacs to HSV's, but given the cost in the USA they'd be considerably more exxy than an HSV currently is. And HSV really only sells so many cars due to people having grown-up through the Group A, Walkinshaw, and then the V8 Supercars eras ... they're going to struggle to garner that much customer support for something in the $100k-$150k segment, especially given that the only time HSV tried that on (W427) they struggled to sell anything.

It takes Lexus levels of quality & dealer attention/commitment to sell something at those prices until you spend 20+ years getting a name; Holden dealers really don't get anywhere near that, and Cadillac product is certainly no better quality than Holden.

 

[PeteSS]

The consumer that buys the 100k -150k Merc/BMW/Porsche is not the person who will buy a GM based product, whatever the GM badge. The majority of the buyers in this group are badge snobs, and will not look kindly to a GM product, even a Cadillac badged one. they would rather buy a basic C class Merc than a Calais with the lot even though they cost the same.

HSV is unique in that it caters for the cashed up revhead, people who could probably afford something much pricier but owned the Monaro or GTR back in the day and still love a snorty, loud, obnoxious V8 .

The Cadillac CTS-V is an awesome car, though it will probably cater for the current top end HSV buyer. Holden needs a range that caters for their current demographic.

People wont know what hit them once Holden stops making cars. You will not be able to get a 50k, 4 door car with over 400BHP, quite well appointed, anywhere else.

 

[SARRAS]

SARRAS, I guess I reserve the right to be sceptical ... you could sort-of compare those perfomancy Cadillacs to HSV's, but given the cost in the USA they'd be considerably more exxy than an HSV currently is. And HSV really only sells so many cars due to people having grown-up through the Group A, Walkinshaw, and then the V8 Supercars eras ... they're going to struggle to garner that much customer support for something in the $100k-$150k segment, especially given that the only time HSV tried that on (W427) they struggled to sell anything.

It takes Lexus levels of quality & dealer attention/commitment to sell something at those prices until you spend 20+ years getting a name; Holden dealers really don't get anywhere near that, and Cadillac product is certainly no better quality than Holden.

I actually think we're more in agreement. GMH currently has nothing in the $100-150k range - and my point is that they NEED to play in that area in a market that's completely fragmented - which the Australian one now is. I agree with the HSV / Group A/ Walkinshaw thing - and hence my point that that mob won't be fooled / interested in a FWD or AWD based V6 Insignia-dore - which I assume Holden will also sell. But they'll sell to the sort of people who probably currently buy the SV6 range or higher spec Japanese sedans like Mazda's 6 or Honda's Accord.

So bring in the Cadillacs for the V8 heads - they are $60-$80k in the states which makes them viable as $120-$150k sales here, which is right in the fat end of where the market is heading now. They'd be a separate brand and separate image - Cadillacs - which is quite different from the W427 fiasco as after all, that was simply a total work-over done on a Commodore and hence looked like an expensive lipstick job on a pig, for the money as such.

I agree totally that the dealer situation is completely in need of overhaul given the market changes, especially if the average price of 'Holden' cars sold has to raise. These days everyone wants to be 'special' and they are fussier than ever about quality, or perhaps perceived quality. The Cadillacs as a product appear to be up there for quality judging from reports out of the states, but I doubt very much that the local Holden dealer experience would cope - they'd need to class up their act severely. But they could do it, if they have the will to make it happen.

Personally I think HSV is potentially the big loser here. What are they left with - HSV Insignia-dores? I'm not convinced...

 

[VS 5.0]

It seems that said chappie had previously owned a BMW 335i or somesuch and when it came time to trade wanted to go get himself an SSV Redline - he even test drove the car etc. The Holden made so much sense to him, especially in light of the running costs of the BMW, and he very much liked it as a drive. BUT, in his circles (the banking district remember), the Holden had no badge credibility at all... and his comrades had 'bogan joked' him out of the choice - hence the Audi S3.

Well he is the fool then.

I just don't understand people who spend so much coin on something just to please others. You have the coin, you have the choice. Just plain ridiculous to let other's bullshit get in the way of what you want.

Unfortunately so many sheeple allow it to happen, hence the cultural cringe at certain products whether cars or something else. At the end of the day, I don't give a fcuk what someone else thinks of my choice, as long as I am happy that I have made the right one.

 

[Reaper]

I don't think that they are taking Aussies for chumps - it just makes sense to keep the brand rather than replacing it with something that means nothing.

I don't see them releasing 'Football, Meatpies, Kangaroos and Holden Cars' ads anymore, nor do I see them coming out and saying that nothing is changing with Holden and it's products.

Meh - that was just an adaptation of 'base ball, hot dogs, apple pie & chevrolet' add a few years earlier.

aaaaaaaaaaand a few years later....