Timing on Red 173!

[Post Vintage]

The car didnt start up this morning, and I have been having problems with it like that a fair bit. Spark there from the dizzy, and fuel fine... definately timing I think. Anyway, I got a guide from oldholden.com on how to do it, since most of my other cars have been really straight forward I thought id just rip out the dizzy and redo it 'properly'.

Retiming engine from scratch link from Oldholden.com

As I rotated the crank, Cylinder #1's inlet valve opens then closes and the guide says that at the end of the close the dizzy should be on TDC, so rotate the crank to 6btdc and then set the dizzy to fire Cyl#1.

The mark on the crank pulley however is totally out of line from this, and going either way from that mark while turning the crank doesnt do nothing to the inlet valve.

Tried this with the vacuum advance module plugged in and not... still nothing.

Running a 173 holden red engine w/ electronic ignition.

Edit: On the timing cover, there is TDC, and some major notch anti-clockwise to that, and about four notches clockwise with an R above them. I figure this was timing retard and the notch to the left of the TDC mark is something I have no idea.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

The notches run in 2 degree increments. You want to align the mark on the harmonic balancer with the 3rd notch to the left of TDC which is 6 degrees BTDC. Do this with a timing light while the engine is running and the vacuum line disconnected from the distributor. To get the dizzy lined up correctly, rotate the engine until number one piston is at the top, number 5 valves should be rocking, that is the exhaust and inlet will be see sawing when you rock the crank back and forth. The rotor button should be pointing pretty close to number 1. If not, take the dizzy out and rotate it around a bit. If the mark on the harmonic balancer is not lined up with TDC the it has probably spun on the rubber. You will need to get a new one to set the timing accurately, or you can mark the position on the balancer to set the timing until you can get a new one.

 

[Post Vintage]

Cheers, Ill get the spark plug out of cylinder 1 and use something that wont damage the piston to find TDC?

Cars not running, been having problems so I just took out the dizzy and tried to set it fresh. Do I plug up the vacuum line going into the dizzy? And the other end into the manifold? I can buy a new balancer, thats no problem. I have to pull it off to change the timing cover gasket there anyway this week. Putting a complete new gasket set through it.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

You can put a screw driver in there just don't let it jam as the piston rises. When the piston is on the comression stroke you will hear pressure escaping from the plug hole, you can put your finger over it to be sure. If you don't feel pressure then it is on the exhaust stroke and you will have to go around again. The vacuum line goes to the inlet manifold, when checking the timing, you just need to block the line going to the manifold, not the fitting on the dizzy.

 

[Post Vintage]

Sweeet, thanks alot for your help. I'll get at it in the morning. So the crank spins anti clockwise right?

Just turned over the dizzy and it spun clockwise, and hand turned the crank anti-clockwise to make the dizzy turn clockwise, so I figured it out like that...

Fingers crossed =)

Also while Im at it, im putting a complete gasket set through it 2moro... is there anything else I should do while im doing it? I know there are things like this with alot of cars. Going to replace balancer, fan belt... stromberg is blackish inside, bit of leakage, so thats going the week after for a 350 Holley. Car has a 2.25" Exhaust w/ single Walker muffler at the rear, extractors going to be fitted when holley goes on.

I have no idea of the power of this engine. Just read it was like 80kw~ or so in a few places. Would shaving the head significantly raise the compression? My mate has a high compression LC 202 Red engine 350 holley/extractors/yella terra head (points ign, mech fuel pump... whereas mine is elec fuel pump and elec ign) and his cars exhaust pressure is ALOT compared to mine. My car goes hard for a stockish 173 though.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Looking from the front of the car, the crank spins clockwise. Shaving the head will give it more compression but unless you port the head and fit bigger valves its not much point. I would give the holley a miss too, IMO they are heavy on fuel for the power gains they give. A popular carby for the reds is either a Carter, or a Webber from an XE or an XF. There isn't much you can do to it apart from extractors and exhaust and carby without spending a heap on it. Remember its only a 173, try to get your hands on a 202. All the bits will swap straight over.

 

[Post Vintage]

Yea the 202 would be the go, but if im going to do an engine change its definately going to be a 308. Staying with the old man at the moment and he doesnt want me really working on cars here that much. Engine cranes and conversions even for one day would make him go mental and kick me out. I been looking at the XE/XF webber's and wondered what I'd have to do to make one fit. Id personally rather one of them then a Holley, alot cheaper and can find them everywhere.

Also with the stromberg now, when I put my foot down, it really doesnt like to go. Wont kick from third to second, although shift from second to third is really strong (Possibly the kickdown cable I reckon... gotta check that 2moro)
And after that the car probably floods and just runs like crap, overheats if its hot and starts chuggin along.

I upgraded the cooling system, and now am using a VR radiator and massive thermofan which I just keep on all the time, running off a switch. New thermostat and housing, custom hoses etc... just trying to make it reliable before I do anything to make it faster. However removing the engine fan and making it run cooler helps alot. Also have CAI pipe going from stock air cleaner to under the front bumper. Oil going all over it though... cant wait till about two weeks time.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I'm pretty sure you can get an adaptor plate for the webber.
Sounds like you have a project on your hands, good luck with it and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Post Vintage]

Will do, cheers for the help. Now to find a nice shmick new digital video camera to take some pics. Old man's car got broken into while he was in asia and his got stolen =(

Just did my research on the webber carbs, and they seem really nice and what I want.

 

[Post Vintage]

The notches run in 2 degree increments. You want to align the mark on the harmonic balancer with the 3rd notch to the left of TDC which is 6 degrees BTDC.

The notches go to the right, and after finding TDC with a screwdriver, the harmonic balancer mark sat right on notch #3. The dizzy was out of line to this at the time, so my hope raised slightly.

I set the dizzy so it was firing right on piston number 1, plugged up the manifold vacuum line and started her and nothing still. Not even a cough and fart.

Im thinking there is some wear on the cam etc? I read about it somewhere... the dizzy shaft looks mint. However because TDC sits on where 6BTDC lies... does that mean I need to go another 6BTDC backwards??? I'm thinking that is the problem.

The fuel pump is doing its job... the carby is pretty dark in there, and I didnt pay too much attention as Im trying to bog the car up also, and that is taking priority over me starting it up. I have to start her up by the weekend though, because I have to start work again on Monday. Did the rocker cover gasket today also =)

If its a problem with the carby or fuel, which I dont think it is because it should be coughing and farting even with no fuel, right? Then im going to fit a webber carby from an XE/XF. Ill be doing this in a week or so time anyway.