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Ve - Vf engine and ecu swap

Discussion in 'General' started by Corzay, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    Hey all, first post so go easy on me! Call me stupid if you like but I've put a bit of research into this and I'm thinking of quite a large project, and I'd just like some clarification and insight. My plan is to purchase a Ve sv6 commodore, and replace it's engine and ecu, including full wiring harness (and some of the interior) with one straight out of a Vf. So the ly7 engine to the lfx engine. Obviously this is going to be pricey, I'll need a lot of professionals to look at it constantly as I'm going along, and I'll need to make several modifications in order to make this work. My current thoughts are that I'll probably need a new fuel pump, may need to have the air con lines and system all upgraded, and the central locking system too. I'm unsure as to whether or not the added features like parallel parking will need anything further implemented, same goes with the electronic handbrake, or whether I'll need new driveshafts, etc, as I can't seem to find much info on it. If someone could help me out, call me a d*ckhead that doesn't know what he's on about, or what I'll need to make this work, that'd be fantastic, cheers!
     
  2. Deltak

    Deltak Donating Member

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    Hi,

    Anything is possible with enough money and effort. Maybe I am missing your point.

    Since you don't seem to have a VE SV6 yet, maybe you should just buy a VF with the LFX and add any extras you would like. This would be cheaper than altering a VE, less hassle with insurance as well.
     
  3. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    Well, I guess the obvious question is "why"? What possible reason would you want to do this for?
     
  4. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    Cheers deltak, I'm aware of the costs and what not, that's not really a big issue. The reason why I'm not just going to go buy a Vf is cost, and it just has a lot of unnecessary features that throw on more expense (also, the back of it looks ridiculous). My biggest concern with a project like this is whether or not a lot of the Ve parts will be compatible with the Vf, even if they needed slight alterations, as I don't want to have to buy literally every part of a Vf to put in a Ve. Rjk, to answer your question, I love the look of the Ve-Vf, so I want a nice looking car, and something that has a bit of power in it too. And I'd like a project car, something to actually work on.
     
  5. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    Why not just buy a late series VE that already has the LFX SIDI engine in it? People already have enough trouble swapping the same motor in the car it was supposed to be in.

    Expect to. I doubt you will have problems physically getting the engine into the car, but as far as I've read the electronics between the Alloytec variants and anything VEII onwards are totally different.

    You said you wanted something with "a bit of power" in your first post. IMHO the difference in output between the two engines really isn't worth the effort and money that you will end up pouring into this. Inevitably somebody will mention that you should buy something that already has an LS, but if you really feel inclined to go with that V6, buy a VEII.
     
  6. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    You may be right on that one rjk, the Ve II's performance and the Vf's isn't that different, and it isn't as if I'm running track. The electronics do seem to be a reoccurring problem, I'm hoping that the Vf wiring harness and ecu will let me hook up a lot of Ve parts and work properly. I'll be replacing the aircon, parts of the ignition (hopefully not all of it), the assisted steering (some consider it a downgrade, but if I can parallel park in bigger towns, I couldn't care less), most likely the steering rack, the instrument cluster, fuse box, lights, not sure about brake pedal and throttle, and I think that about concludes it. I really don't want to be having to replace half of the engine bay through incompatibility.
     
  7. vongy10

    vongy10 Active Member

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    Why waste money and time with a swap? Just buy a MY12+ SV6 that already has the LFX....
     
  8. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    Because the llt and Lfx aren't awfully different, I think I'll go with the llt (my10 Ve sv6). I'll still be putting the Vf wiring harness and ecu in, but I'm unsure as to what would be compatible and what would need to be replaced. And vongy, I'd love to, but I don't have a gold mine anywhere near my home :p
     
  9. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    There would be absolutely zero to gain from swapping the loom and ECU (that's even if they're different), not to mention that you need to work out how to get it to work with that BCM or the LLT sensors. If you're really that pedantic about it spend that money getting somebody to custom tune it and get something decent instead of worrying about dicking around with factory performance.

    You'll still need a gold mine to do what you have in mind. You're only looking at short term cost in terms of parts. Nobody ever factors in their own time or effort or the end reliability. You're pretty much trying to reinvent the wheel for minimal gain.

    The vehicle that you want already exists, but you're taking the most difficult/expensive/inefficient way to get it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  10. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    I definitely see where you're coming from. But I have considered the costs of professional labour, and the amount of time I will be putting into this. I still believe it'd be cheaper to pretty much take the technology out of the Vf, and throw it in a Ve, rather than purchasing a Vf. I've read that other people have taken the harness and ecu from an Lfx engine into an llt engine car, because the Lfx has an ecu that is easier to tune. The wiring harness should also come with the Lfx sensors, which if I am correct are the same model as the previous version. The only real problem is the electronics, the problem that a lot of the Ve parts will not be compatible with the newer technology, although even if I had to get all those parts replaced, it'd still be cheaper than buying a Vf, even if it was second hand.
     
  11. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    What exactly are you going to do to this engine once it's in the car that needs this extra tunability?
     
  12. Noeleter

    Noeleter Active Member

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    You also have to keep in mind that no one will ever want to buy it when you grow tired of it.
     
  13. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    Rjk, I've decided that if I get a later Ve Sv6 (my10) it'll have the llt engine, which is arguably a step down, but most definitely substantial for me. That way I won't be swapping the engine, but instead only be swapping the ecu, wiring harness, Bcm, and a few other bits and pieces. My plan is to slap everything together, have it thoroughly inspected and maybe get a half guarantee I'm not a ticking time bomb, and then have a proper tune done and get everything in shape. Noeleter, I'm well aware that nobody in their right mind would want to purchase a car pretty much rebuilt by someone who can't even be called an amateur, but I'm okay with that. I want to go sort of all out with this project. I don't really see money as a horribly valuable thing, financially you need yourself a nice car, a nice home, and savings for holidays or things leisure related. I'm starting off with the nice car :p
     
  14. vongy10

    vongy10 Active Member

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    Are you serious? You don't need a gold mine. You can get a MY12 in the mid to low 20's now. Have you even gotten a price on an engine, ecu and harness? I doubt that they would be cheap.

    _R_J_K is right, the car you're thinking of building already exists. I've got one 10m away from me. Why fart ass around thinking things will work when you can actually buy one that works without a fault. Don't even need to buy a VF to get what you are thinking of doing.
     
  15. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    I can get the engine, ecu, and harness for $4000, although since I've decided against the engine swap I'd just be getting the ecu and harness, around $500. I'm aware that I can buy a car that's similar to what I want, but where's the fun in that? ;) I want to turn a Ve almost into a Vf (almost), that's the goal I have in mind.
     
  16. Deltak

    Deltak Donating Member

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    Hi Corzay,

    If you can find a friendly Holden spare parts technician, you may be able to talk him into allowing you some quality time with their replacement parts/no.s catalog. You can see if there is any difference between looms, sensors, ECU's etc. It may be worth a slab or two to do the research.

    I would think that most would be compatible, reality may be different.

    Just a thought.
     
  17. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    Hey deltak, cheers for that suggestion, that could actually be really great!
     
  18. vongy10

    vongy10 Active Member

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    So what are you planning to retrofit into the VE from the VF?
     
  19. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    That's a lot of work just to get an ECU that might be easier to tune for a bog stock engine. What makes the VE ECU so difficult to tune over the VF?
     
  20. Corzay

    Corzay New Member

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    Alright, so I've looked further into it, and I've read on a forum that the Vf Ecu could work with the llt, yet I cannot find anyone else confirming that. So I think I'm back to the engine, trans, fuel pump, ecu, Bcm, and wiring harness (including part/all of Ignition to make sure the immobiliser Suits the ecu), +all sensors and gauges (etc, etc) into a Ve sv6. What I'm planning on pinching would probably be a lot of the front interior (as long as it fits, keeping it down shouldn't be an issue), I'll be keeping the Ve chairs though as leather seats would burn like a bitch in summer, I'd probably take the mirror which checks for blindspots with its built in sensor as long as it's a simple hook up to the wiring harness (just because why not?), then I'd be taking the cluster, the Ac (meaning I'll no doubt need all the pipes and what not redone), the display (also should be a plug and play with right wiring harness), the window switches, the sensor and camera related switches (Park and what not), I may have to get the electronic handbrake to match interior (need to do a bit of research on that one) and I think I'll also be taking the steering rack and column, along with the electronic Steering assist. I'm not sure about the braking system, I don't know if I'd need to take out the Vf's for that (hopefully not as later models are front Brembo), the drive shafts and all those things that make the wheels go round and round should hopefully be compatible as the transmission is the same model (although internally slightly altered I think?), I'm not entirely sure about the brake and throttle pedals (although should be simple enough if need be), then there's smaller things like head and tail lights to suit the harness. I'm mostly hoping that the new stuff will hook up to the radiator and what not, it seems like it should do, as most of the 'new' parts are just slightly altered or even unchanged old parts.
     

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