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VZ LS1 Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor

Jolls

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Hi All,

First post from me. I have been lurking and learning for sometime to support a VZ ute project. The project commenced when my VY hit a roo and was written off. I purchased the wreck back and then located a VZ ute less engine, transmission, ECU and accelerator pedal unit.

The VY donk has been transplanted with an upgraded cam, OTR and drive by wire throttle body. An ECU has been ordered so I am almost ready to get her going; however, I have been unable to source a drive by wire accelerator. I have searched high and low for a second hand replacement with no luck. I have also been searching for the specification for the original and aftermarket options to suit with no success.

Given the parts are no longer available and second hand ones are as rare as rocking horse poo we will have to eventually come up with an affordable alternative. I don't want to reinvent the wheel if someone has already identified an aftermarket option. If there has yet to be a solution developed there may be merit in investigating the modification of a readily available substitute.

The operating principle of the drive by wire accelerator position sensor is quite simple. Has anyone investigated the feasibility of modifying a VZ V6 or 6.0 litre pedal to the specifications of the LS1? If so was it successful, if not what has prevented it being pursued?

Thanks in advance for your advice and support.

Cheers Jolls
 

Jolls

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Hi All,

Not an overwhelming response to date. I managed to get hold of an accelerator pedal from a 6.0 litre VZ and pulled it apart. As I expected there is a wiper and a series of printed variable resistors (see photo).
VZ 6.0 litre accelerator position sensor 1.jpg


Provided the wipers and number of pins is the same throughout the range of VZ fly by wire pedals it may be possible to modify a V6 or 6.0 litre pedal by changing the board. In order to investigate this further I need to get a look internals of a v6 and LS1 pedal and the specifications of the LS1 outputs etc (or one to clone). I haven't investigated the cost yet - potentially prohibitive - depends on volume I expect.

Any thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated. Happy to collaborate to develop a solution if anyone is interested.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls
 

Jolls

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Simply to record things for someone down the track - or when there is no Vz LS1 pedals available.
I picked up a pedal from a VS SS - part number is 92183447. I can't find that part number referenced but have been guaranteed that it is off an LS1. We will fit it an find out. (Edit: after much research it appears that this pedal number is related to an LS1 powere crewman)

I tested the pins between the 6.0 litre variant and the 5.7. The wiper has for sets of contacts in connected pairs that bring the variable resistor tracks together. You can see from the picture above that pins 4 and 7 do not connect to another track on the board. They connect to the tracks 3-5 and 6-8 through the wiper. I expect that they are used by the computer as voltage dividers to position the pedal accurately in two directions. One reverse of the other.

I took readings between pins for tracks 3-5 and 6-8 and from the pin to the end of the variable resistor track for pins 4 and 7.The outputs below are listed 5.7 litre/6.0 litre:

pins 3-5 .945/4.71 kohm
pin 4 to end of track .992/.982 kohm
pins 6-8 1.233/3.92 kohm
pin 7 to end of track 1.063/.966 kohm

I have not heard back from the OEM as yet regarding specs or availability of the circuit boards. Once I do there may be an opportunity to produce some boards to replace worn components down the track or change V6/6.0 litre or other pedal mechanisms to suit. I will let you know how I go.

As an aside with luck we will be able to crank over the beastie in the next couple of days. ECU from LS Extreme has arrived; that completes the engine running components. I just need to balance work to find some time in the shed. Hearing the beast live again is a big motivation factor.

The only thing left for the ute to be a runner is a clutch line (on order).

Cheers n Beers
Jolls
 
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mechanic

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Some simple electrical trickery with resistors should be able to manipulate the outputs of this to match your original APP sensor.
Maybe not something you can do without an understanding of ohms-law, but not difficult for a curious first-year electrician/engineer.
 

Jolls

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Some simple electrical trickery with resistors should be able to manipulate the outputs of this to match your original APP sensor.
Maybe not something you can do without an understanding of ohms-law, but not difficult for a curious first-year electrician/engineer.
Hi Mechanic,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not an electrical engineer and neither am I an electronics nerd, but I am a sparky by trade so I can hold my own with most aspects of electrickery (haha). I went down the same thought process early but waived it off in the end. I may have been wrong to do so. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Theoretically I agree that it could be done using resistors but I did not take it further for a couple of reasons. Firstly, practicality. Pins 3-5 and 6-8 in the LS2 version are significantly over the LS1 specs so some tricky parrallel circuitry would be required. Potentially the V6 version has a lower resistance and a simple series circuit could be used.

That is when the second issue hit me. The resistance needs to be lineal and progressive for it to be accurate. Simply adding resistors in series or parallel won't replicate that so we are back to designing some sort of board to enable the circuitry. It would be much easier, and more practical, to lay a track of carbon with the right resistance on a board and replace the original.

Unless there is a simple solution I have overlooked, and quite possibly there is as I'm not a nerd or engineer, getting or making a replacement board seems to be the most practical solution.

I'm not that worried about it at the moment because I have, touch wood, sourced the part I need for my project. Having said that we will need to eventually find a solution as the original boards won't last forever and the hot/rat rodders are gobbling up VZ accelerators and computers for the conversion simplicity.

If you have thoughts on a better approach it would be great to hear. I would love to solve this for the longer term as I intend to keep my ute. I am going to keep chasing the OEM and also look for some nerd that may be able to make a new board for me to see what the art of the possible is.

Happy for whatever assistance I can find along the way.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls
 
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Jolls

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Hi All,

An update to this thread for clarity. We are getting fault codes related to the pedal. Checked the reference voltages and pins to the beast and they are good. Checked the resistances against the pins in the wiring diagram and the beast I have is either a V6 or 6 litre version (edit incorrrect - see below for correction). The search is back on for a genuine accelerator setup. I am going to change the pins into the pedal to see if I can't at least get some throttle response while we wait to find one.

Second edit - it turns out the pedal was correct - it is off a crewman. What is incorrect and was causing the code issues is the pin diagram for the B22 connector is incorrect. it should show

4 3 2 1
5 6 7 8 as opposed to

4 3 2 1
8 7 6 5



Cheers n Beers
Jolls
 
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Jolls

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Changing the pins at the connector doesn't work even though they are aligned earth to earth 5v reference to 5v reference and voltage divider output to voltage diver output. The computer says no and jumps into safe mode. The search is on.
 

Jolls

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Hi all - I am desperately in need of some help.

I ordered another VZ LS1 pedal from a wrecker in Melbourne and finally, due to Rona, it arrived. When I pulled it from the box I was surprised to find that I had received the same part (92183447) as the previous one I was guaranteed came from a VZ LS1 SS Commodore. I plugged it in for shits and giggles and had the same result. I plugged the scantool in to check for any codes and it **** itself - I must have kicked someone's cat!

Anyway I rang Holden again and asked the question again. This time I was told that it was an LS1 pedal - just not for my model VZ. Perhaps it is from a WL. Holden could not tell me what it was from or if it is capable of communicating with the throttle actuator control module; useless as tits on a bull.

So what have I done? I have pinned out the cable between the pedal and the TAC; each pin has continuity and is in the correct position as per the wiring diagram. If this pedal is from an and LS1 powered beast I doubt very much that there would be a difference between the pedals even if the part number has changed.

I am left wondering if the TAC is in fact the problem. So - how do I test that? Any support would be greatly appreciated - I feel like I am knocking my head against a brick wall. I know the answer will be simple - just what is it? (and 42 is not the answer to this problem)

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers n Beers

Jolls
 
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Tonner Matt

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Posted this in the thread you started today:

Not sure if this will help or not because I'm no electronics guru, but as far as I know the VZ LS1 pedals were a stand alone part for the specific VZ LS1 powered vehicles only
The VZ LS2, L76 & L98 powered vehicle pedals will not work with the LS1 vehicles and vice versa

If you've fitted the VZ LS1's electronic throttle body, in theory you'd expect them to communicate..........
I presume the VZ's shell still had the factory harness fitted to it when you purchased it

The other problem nowadays is finding an electronic throttle pedal for sale, because they are no longer available through Holden and second hand units are getting pretty scarce
I actually bought 2 sports pedals a few years ago for my 1 Tonner, and I paid a ridiculous price for them because of that reason

EDIT:
Just out of curiousity, what is the part number of the pedal you are using ?
I want to compare it to my factory original pedal, and the sports pedals that I have currently
 

Jolls

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Thanks Matt, (for completeness I posted the answer here as well)

Answers to all below

Not sure if this will help or not because I'm no electronics guru, but as far as I know the VZ LS1 pedals were a stand alone part for the specific VZ LS1 powered vehicles only
The VZ LS2, L76 & L98 powered vehicle pedals will not work with the LS1 vehicles and vice versa
That is 100% correct. The accelerator pedal only works for a VZ LS1 (or

If you've fitted the VZ LS1's electronic throttle body, in theory you'd expect them to communicate..........
I presume the VZ's shell still had the factory harness fitted to it when you purchased it
Yes mate the harness is complete, though I am wondering if the TAC Module is the problem. The throttle body appears to run though its learn procedure so I am expecting the fault is not on that side of it.

The other problem nowadays is finding an electronic throttle pedal for sale, because they are no longer available through Holden and second hand units are getting pretty scarce
I actually bought 2 sports pedals a few years ago for my 1 Tonner, and I paid a ridiculous price for them because of that reason

EDIT:
Just out of curiousity, what is the part number of the pedal you are using ?
I want to compare it to my factory original pedal, and the sports pedals that I have currently
I have secured two pedals from two separate wreckers both advising that they are off an LS1 powered VZ. The part number is 92183447. As indicated in the other post this is not the part number Holden have for it; however, they advise me that it is off an LS1 powered vehicle. Maybe a Stato. Both are sports pedal and both supposedly came off VZ SS LS1s.

Cheers

Jolls
 
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