BCM and slip ring

[Jolls]

You’re welcome and good luck. If you remember maybe make a note of it here after you try so others can do the same in the future

I definitely will document it so others can follow it through to a solution in the future.

So I went back in with the Tech 2 to play around and it won't let me access the BCM now. It recognises it is from the wrong model. I thought the BCMs were interchangeable (at build level) between VY and VZ.

I can operate all the functions, less start the car, so it is working.

Thoughts or experience with this anyone?

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

 

[Martbar]

Mate l only got one key with the car and since reading about some of the problems other people have had, l have ordered a replacement. It needs to be cut and programmed. The iLink400 is meant to be able to program it but after the trouble that you and others have had, l certainly won't be holding my breath. Good luck with yours and keep us posted.
Cheers.

 

[Lex]

Mate l only got one key with the car and since reading about some of the problems other people have had, l have ordered a replacement. It needs to be cut and programmed. The iLink400 is meant to be able to program it but after the trouble that you and others have had, l certainly won't be holding my breath. Good luck with yours and keep us posted.
Cheers.

There are other members who have the vident i 400au (including me) that have had success with programming keys (l haven't tried).
I think one was for a vs & another was for either a vy or vz?

 

[Lex]

I definitely will document it so others can follow it through to a solution in the future.

So I went back in with the Tech 2 to play around and it won't let me access the BCM now. It recognises it is from the wrong model. I thought the BCMs were interchangeable (at build level) between VY and VZ.

I can operate all the functions, less start the car, so it is working.

Thoughts or experience with this anyone?

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Go back to the original bcm, & see what the results are?

With it working & not working, l wonder if its in the wiring or connections? But l think you've been through all that?

 

[Martbar]

There are other members who have the vident i 400au (including me) that have had success with programming keys (l haven't tried).
I think one was for a vs & another was for either a vy or vz?

Hey Lex cheers mate, (again). l'm assuming that once you get into the menu it will walk you through the process.

 

[Lex]

Hey Lex cheers mate, (again). l'm assuming that once you get into the menu it will walk you through the process.

Haven't tried myself. So, no idea?

Go & have a play.

 

[_R_J_K_]

So I went back in with the Tech 2 to play around and it won't let me access the BCM now. It recognises it is from the wrong model. I thought the BCMs were interchangeable (at build level) between VY and VZ.

I can operate all the functions, less start the car, so it is working.

Thoughts or experience with this anyone?

If it's anything like the VR/VS and VT/VX (which is almost pretty certain) it is highly likely that the security signal is wrong if you're using a VY BCM in a VZ (this is the setup you have, yes?), particularly with the different ECUs that the VZ uses across the board. Each model (e.g. VR, VS, VT, VX, and almost certainly VZ) has it's own security signal that will not work with the model before or after it, regardless of if the body shape is the same (just saying that for clarity). For memcal based Delco ECUs it was usually just a case of swapping the memcal (along with the standard BCM linking for VT onwards) or having VATS disabled so that the ECU just ignores the security signal completely and starts regardless (this is more for engine transplants and is basically a bandaid if you're actually trying to fix something). So if you had a VR 5L, you could use the VS (or even VN/VP if the VR had a T5) ECU provided it had a memcal corresponding to the VR security signal. Not really possible (or just a massive pain) with the flash based Delco ECUs and Delphi based LS ECUs (especially because of DBW and ABS), and basically impossible with the Motronic units.

So what this boils down to, is that the BCM will try sending a signal to the ECU to say that "the correct key is inserted, please start", but the ECU is basically saying either "I have no idea what your saying, so I'm not starting" or "the security signal is incorrect, not starting".

What was the problem with the VZ BCM? You can send it to Injectronics to have them run diagnostics on it (I think when I did this for an ECU it was $140, but that was a decade ago so it might be totally wrong) and attempt to repair it if it's not functioning correctly, there doesn't need to be a specific identified problem.

 

[_R_J_K_]

Also worth mentioning that VATS (or whatever it's recent GM equivalent is) enablement has been tune based as it internally effects the operation of ECU, so it's not something that you can change with any Tech 2 AFAIK, official or not.

 

[Jolls]

@Martbar @Lex @_R_J_K_ @mechanic @slipknot09

Thanks heaps for the advice and the support.

First up let me answer your questions:

Mate l only got one key with the car and since reading about some of the problems other people have had, l have ordered a replacement. It needs to be cut and programmed. The iLink400 is meant to be able to program it but after the trouble that you and others have had, l certainly won't be holding my breath. Good luck with yours and keep us posted.
Cheers.

Martbar, I will document the steps with the Vident once it arrives. I will also try using the Tech 2 now that I have the BCM Security Code.

Go back to the original bcm, & see what the results are?

With it working & not working, l wonder if its in the wiring or connections? But l think you've been through all that?

Lex, Will do once I get a key programmed. I have been waiting on the Vident to do so. Now I have the security code for the BCM I may be able to do it with the Tech 2 so I will be calling the Holden Service Centre on Monday to see if I can pick up a couple of keys - one for the Vident and one for the Tech 2 - will document both for others in the future..

If it's anything like the VR/VS and VT/VX (which is almost pretty certain) it is highly likely that the security signal is wrong if you're using a VY BCM in a VZ (this is the setup you have, yes?), particularly with the different ECUs that the VZ uses across the board. Each model (e.g. VR, VS, VT, VX, and almost certainly VZ) has it's own security signal that will not work with the model before or after it, regardless of if the body shape is the same (just saying that for clarity)

RJK - using the VZ BCM in the VY and I am now able to access it so it is looking quite promising. The detail is in the rest of the post below.

What was the problem with the VZ BCM? You can send it to Injectronics to have them run diagnostics on it (I think when I did this for an ECU it was $140, but that was a decade ago so it might be totally wrong) and attempt to repair it if it's not functioning correctly, there doesn't need to be a specific identified problem.

RJK - Nothing wrong with the VZ BCM it was running fine before we hit a roo and wrote the ute off. Nothing wrong with the VY BCM either, AFAIK, just that the one key I had failed. Detail is below.

I guess a bit of background as to how I got here and why I have been experimenting so you have a feel for the why.

The VY SS Ute (Jimi Hendrix after his colour "Purple Haze") was purchased after we hat a roo in the VZ SS Ute and was written off (The VZ SS Ute was a replacement for a VY S ute that was written off after hitting a roo). The VZ was a rolling shell and had the original VY running gear transplanted.

Jimi came with the engine in place, a reco T56 and a new true trac centre and dana gears. PCM was changed from auto to manual by OzTrack in preparation for the changover. Jimi came with a new harness and supposedly ready to go and one key with a bodgie battery setup.

Anyway got Jimi together and he would crank but not start - the primary fault being DTC P1626 THEFT DETERRENT SYSTEM FUEL ENABLE CIRCUIT. This is because the PCM does not like the code from the BCM. This shuts down the fuel circuit and cuts the serial data comms.

Then the key died. Could no read the chip so we went from being able to crank the engine to nothing.

Purchased a MAP key and programming tool to replace the key - failed.

Decided to purchase a subscription to TIS to program a key and "touch wood" link the PCM.

Could not get the tech 2 (a clone) to work with TIS, cracked TIS global or direct programming by Holden (with support from Holden Customer Care).

After two weeks and seemingly endless struggles with software and TIS I decided to purchase a Vident730AU as it is supposed to be able to program keys and link the PCM. It was ordered overnight express - been waiting a week.

That is the short version of the story. If you want the long version you can find it here.

So with time on my hands waiting for the Vident scan tool to arrive I thought I would experiment.

A mate came over with his scan tool and we were able to get the BCM security code - thought we were on a winner. Tried to program the MAP Key (failed). May be able to do it with the Tech 2 and a genuine Holden Key now - I guess we will know on Monday.

With the Tech 2 options now totally exhausted I thought; stuff it I have a good VZ BCM and key so what options do I have. My research indicates that the BCM for the VY/VZ are inter-changeable. The ancillary feed for the drive by wire is handled by the Throttle Actuator Control Module and the Pedal. The PCM is different and gets some different feeds but the feeds to and from the BCM are the same.

So I changed it over - key now works and I could crank the engine - but no start. As described earlier in the thread I couldn't get into the BCM with the Tech 2 to check the issues - but could interrogate all the other modules.

I was out at Grand Daughter's birthday party today and then had a few Father's Day beers with my sons. After chatting with the boys we figured that the Tech 2 would know that the BCM was not from 03 so would pick up on the issue.

So when I got back home I loaded up the VZ data on the Tech 2and was able to get into the BCM. Even better I was able to enter the BCM security code and this allowed the Tech 2 to go through the linking procedure. I followed the prompts - link BCM/PCM - new PCM or new BCM - Select BCM - Select Program - Programming Successful.

Checked the live data - everything looks good - operate the accelerator pedal and can see the % open live, key - accepted, security - disabled

Turn Key - crank - no start.

I haven't investigated it further as I got cold and it got dark. Time for a beer or two and reflect on the "progress".

So I have a few tracks that I am going to investigate over the next few days:

1. While I am waiting for the Vident to turn up I will continue to work the VZ BCM with the Tech 2 and and see where it leads. My understanding is that once there is a successful link the PIM translates the BCM security codes and acts as the gateway to the PCM and the rest of the management is signal in signal out both ways. RJK's advice about them speaking a different security language is acknowledged, but if the PIM has allowed it to crank then it has accepted the initial BCM code. I will work it through it anyway and report on here what I find for others who have a similar problem. I mean what have I got to lose? This BCM will be used in the Crewman LS1 transplant Son 2 and I are undertaking if I can get the VY one back in play.
2. On Monday I will grab two Holden Keys and try to program one key using the Tech 2 with the BCM Security Code and then try to link the original BCM and the PIM/PCM. If that is successful - nothing more to do except to learn how to program a key with the Vident
3. When the Vident arrives I will try to program the other key and also undertake the linking procedure.

I am sure that I am on the right track - just a matter of changing one thing at a time until we succeed.

Sorry for the long story - but I expect the background it important.

Thanks for the support and advice - you guys are keeping me sane.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

 

[slipknot09]

Also worth mentioning that VATS (or whatever it's recent GM equivalent is) enablement has been tune based as it internally effects the operation of ECU, so it's not something that you can change with any Tech 2 AFAIK, official or not.

HPTuners or vcm suite would be required to disable VATS. I don’t believe tuner pro supports VZ. Or one of those modules designed by one of the guys at pcm hacking