[NSW] Engine Number Information

[Bigfella237]

Hi guys, just got a motor with the engine number N968079P. ~

As above, this is a NSW Police issued number, the 8079th number issued (state-wide) in 1996 as it happens, so the block must be older than that (funny business not withstanding).

The numbers are simply issued on a first come, first served basis, there was no allocation for certain uses or areas or anything like that. Any police station could issue these numbers, and they could be issued to replace engine or chassis numbers on cars, or indeed any legal identifier that was missing, illegible, or never there in the first place (push bikes, appliances, etc.).

The police didn't physically stamp these numbers on themselves, they (usually) only inspected whatever it was to verify the original number was gone but then only did the necessary paperwork, they would then direct you to an authorised inspection station or similar to have the new number stamped.

If an engine was stolen and then recovered with it's original number intact then the police would simply mark it as "recovered", IE take it off the stolen list, and you could continue to use that number.

~ As far as I’m aware, decking a pad to remove a number and re-stamping is illegal ~

It is VERY common with a Holden V8 to machine off the original engine number when "decking" the block. There is nothing dodgy or illegal about this, some blocks need the decks machined to align them with the crankshaft centreline and/or equalise the deck heights side to side.

A lot of engine shops simply restamp the original number on the newly machined surface, some will restamp the original number somewhere else on the block too, but technically, once the original stamping is no longer visible you're supposed to have a new number issued.

Having a police number doesn't necessarily mean it's been stolen or involved in an accident, in fact, if the accident damage was severe enough to destroy that part of the block then I'd suggest it would be unusable anyway!

Andrew

 

[Skylarking]

Thanks for the clarification Bigfella.

... A lot of engine shops simply restamp the original number on the newly machined surface, some will restamp the original number somewhere else on the block too, but technically, once the original stamping is no longer visible you're supposed to have a new number issued.

So in other words it’s illegal to deck the block and re-stamp the original number

Having a police number doesn't necessarily mean it's been stolen or involved in an accident, in fact, if the accident damage was severe enough to destroy that part of the block then I'd suggest it would be unusable anyway!

Havimg a police number means something has occurred.

About the only case where a chassis number need to be re-stamped with police issued number would be crash damage (requiring panel that had the chassis number on it to be replaced) or rust repair (of the panel with the chassis number on it needing to be replaced). Another case would be theft and defacing the chassis number to try and rebirth the vehicle... The later being one of the big reasons NEVDIS and requiring 17digit VIN were created

For an engine, it’d be machining the number off, or theft of a car and defacing the engine number to sell the engine to someone else (whether they know the history or not). As you say if the engine number was damaged in an accident, the engine block would likely be damaged beyond safe reuse

But for me, if there is a choice of two cars, one with correct numbers and one with police issued numbers, I’d always choose the kosher numbered vehicle as it simply avoids the questions that can occur down the track

 

[Trevor loves holden.]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gine_numbers&usg=AOvVaw2iywvbUlQSbgTzpaAZLrO4

 

[gtrboyy]

Back in 90's even in the 80's it was common to get cop numbers for various reasons.

Some engine shops wouldn't restamp or forget to write down engine number...even if you had to get block x-rayed to see original numbers & found legit you're then told you can't put them back on yourself hence cop numbers.

Another trick was get block decked then not stamp block so it you can get new numbers issued...that way old cars didn't need to have pollution gears,cats etc fitted nor need engineers certificate for those mods otherwise RTA would not allow,some even failed blueslip inspection for it.

It also went the other way fitting red blocks into commodores etc RTA could refuse to allow...complete red 308 were a few hundred where incomplete black 308 rebuilder was 1k easy.

As op mentioned driveline was in a tonner so assume it's more about model it came out of than originality etc

 

[DavesSV6Tonner]

X-ray is not a reliable method of retrieving a missing stamped number from a thick metal object. X-ray works well on sheet metal not on engine blocks.
A better method is to use chemical etching on cast iron engine blocks and this also works well on sheet metal.
In Australia it is impossible to buy the etching chemicals if you are not registered in an occupation that requires their use.
I know because a mate suspected his 308 was a restamp and wanted to check it. He could not find anywhere in Australia that would sell it to him.