HSV Confirms Release of "Gen-F"

[Reaper]

If you can look beyond the performance or exterior design for a moment, there are tangible differences between Commodores and inflated price Euros. The big difference between a decent Euro and a Commodore, is the quality of the materials used, particularly in the interiors.

Go sit in a current model Australian delivered BMW anything. The satnav & reveal look like an afterthought at best. I don't know about mercedes one way or the other.

You wouldn't find a low-rent, cheap cloth and hard plastic Omega style interior in a base Merc or Beemer. Look at the work put into the VF interior and you can see that Holden has identified one of its most glaring deficiencies in the VE design. The VE interior looks cheap and nasty in Omegas and really doesn't get much better as you go up the price range.

Fair point although what does a base model VE cost verses a base model 5 Series or E Class. The plastics of the centre console and handbrake etc let the VE down across the entire range though

 

['ssv']

..............

 

['ssv']

If you can look beyond the performance or exterior design for a moment, there are tangible differences between Commodores and inflated price Euros. The big difference between a decent Euro and a Commodore, is the quality of the materials used, particularly in the interiors. You wouldn't find a low-rent, cheap cloth and hard plastic Omega style interior in a base Merc or Beemer. Look at the work put into the VF interior and you can see that Holden has identified one of its most glaring deficiencies in the VE design. The VE interior looks cheap and nasty in Omegas and really doesn't get much better as you go up the price range.

Having owend and driven plenty of newer mercs, I agree the interior is made of better quality materials. It's also more ergonomic in its lay out.
But like everything, its a brand name that sells the product. Driving a merc or bmw, you must be rich. Driving a commodore your a bogan.

Though the interior of an a class merc a few years ago was pretty shocking..

 

[PROBLEM?]

i don't understand why people hate ve's,they are the best looking commodore ever made an **** all over its predecessors.

vf again is a major improvement on quality,if holden kept there cars looking like the 20yr old models,you have situation like ford when the ba actually got with the times. the vr-vs looks more modern then au.

 

[c2105026]

If I *had* to spend $95k on a car I'd probably get a BMW 335i over a HSV product; 0-100 in 5.5s, 7.2L/100km, reasonable resale, can't really argue with that.....

 

[Calaber]

Go sit in a current model Australian delivered BMW anything. The satnav & reveal look like an afterthought at best. I don't know about mercedes one way or the other.



Fair point although what does a base model VE cost verses a base model 5 Series or E Class. The plastics of the centre console and handbrake etc let the VE down across the entire range though

Reap

We all know that the cost of Euro cars in Australia, particularly the larger and more up-market models, are unfairly inflated in price by Australian taxes. I don't know what they cost in their home countries, but we know that in the US, they are far cheaper than here, so they are probably comparable to US prices, converted to Euros, in Europe - i.e. much cheaper than Aus. Despite that, their interiors leave ours for dead. You picked it yourself - the VE console and centre dash is the worst feature of the interior and it cheapens the interior badly.

 

[HamaTime™]

430kw sounds great but 95 grand for a tarted up Holden sedan?? Crap you can buy a real sports car for that.. OMG HERE COMES A CORNER WHAT DO I DO?

I'm with the media, less power more refinement please. It will still be just a Commodore. In 5 years it will cost less secondhand than a new Camry.. if they haven't all been written off by then.

If I were to spend 95 grand on a car, there is no freaking way it would be a Holden.

Why compare an HSV to a 'purpose built' sports car. HSV is essentially a Grand Tourer car, a performance car built on a large family car platform, exactly the same as what AMG do (in the relevant models). Compare a new HSV i.e. E3 model to an older VN-VS, hell even to a VZ, the handling of the E series, especially with the MRC as Reap stated, is far FAR beyond the 'handles like a commodore' phrase. No it does not handle like a purpose built sports car, i.e. Corvette or even an EVO, again, they are 'purpose built' sports cars, no comparison.

A Commodore is a Commodore. Upgrade the suspension, stick a big engine in it, add some nice leather and some stitching and stickers and its still a Commodore.

Go down to AMG, pay $230k for a C63 AMG. Guess what!? You just paid $230,000 for a car which is basically just a 'tricked up' version of the base C class Mercedes, which shock horror, is a fairly basic model of Mercedes current offerings. It's all relative. Price Point reflects this!

Assumption much?

A shame that a 95 grand commodore doesn't come with 'better conventional spring/shock combos' as OEM then isn't it? I would want the best for that kind of cash.

No matter what car you buy, you can ALWAYS improve it. There are so many factors which affect a manufacturers decision as to what to include in it's OEM offering.

If I *had* to spend $95k on a car I'd probably get a BMW 335i over a HSV product; 0-100 in 5.5s, 7.2L/100km, reasonable resale, can't really argue with that.....

But then again, two very different cars. Most people who buy an HSV are looking for a bang for buck Grand Tourer style car. Spacious enough that it's practical for daily/holiday duties, with enough power to satisfy your adrenline rush urges and also for track days if you so desire.

People's rationale for criticising HSV's offerings appear to be very misguided.

Before anyone calls me a 'sold out HSV die hard bogan fan' that is not the case, so don't even come at me with that argument.

 

[mpower]

Most people who buy an HSV are looking for a bang for buck Grand Tourer style car. Spacious enough that it's practical for daily/holiday duties, with enough power to satisfy your adrenline rush urges and also for track days if you so desire.

People's rationale for criticising HSV's offerings appear to be very misguided.

They just aren't in the target market, that's my rationale.

 

[HamaTime™]

They just aren't in the target market, that's my rationale.

Very fair assumption.

 

[DAKSTER]

Why compare an HSV to a 'purpose built' sports car. HSV is essentially a Grand Tourer car, a performance car built on a large family car platform, exactly the same as what AMG do (in the relevant models). Compare a new HSV i.e. E3 model to an older VN-VS, hell even to a VZ, the handling of the E series, especially with the MRC as Reap stated, is far FAR beyond the 'handles like a commodore' phrase. No it does not handle like a purpose built sports car, i.e. Corvette or even an EVO, again, they are 'purpose built' sports cars, no comparison.



Go down to AMG, pay $230k for a C63 AMG. Guess what!? You just paid $230,000 for a car which is basically just a 'tricked up' version of the base C class Mercedes, which shock horror, is a fairly basic model of Mercedes current offerings. It's all relative. Price Point reflects this!

C 63 AMG
Manufacturer's List Price including GST $132,800.00
Recommended maximum dealer delivery including GST $3,269.23
Luxury Car Tax (LCT) $23,080.87
QLD Registration $694.40
QLD CTP2 $328.80
QLD Stamp Duty $6,368.00

Drive Away Price $166,541.30

That's for a c63 AMG sedan of course. A little over double the price of the base model?
The HSV going to be triple the price of the base model... and out of curiosity, I wonder if that 95k price is a drive away price, or will you still need to add that extra 30k+ that the price of the Merc above does? I admit to not knowing.. I guess nobody will really know until they buy and register one.

Of course you have some valid points. Of course the HSV will be substantially better than the Commodore it is based on. Of course the HSV is not a sports car. Of course I have no doubt at all the the HSV will be a damn good car, and very nice to be in.

And despite the 65 grand you tacked on top of the real price, the c63 is certainly more expensive.

The c63 is still more expensive yes. It has less power yes. It is also better built with better materials and will remain trouble free for many years. When you go to sell it, you will find depreciation tiny compared to the HSV though. A five year old Australian built car is worth about one quarter of its purchase price, a Merc is worth about half. You can probably add a premium to both of the cars resale value given their relative exclusivity. Shall we say 10 grand?

ergo.. on current trends, in 5 years time the 95k HSV will be worth around 40 grand. The 166k AMG will be worth about 90 grand. You will have lost ~55 grand on the HSV but only ~76 grand on the AMG. Not bad since they start 70 grand apart. Incidentally although I am sure buyers of either car are not going to be particularly interested in fuel economy, you will probably? also save an enormous amount of cash on fuel over that period of time if you buy the AMG.

Yes, the Mercs are the Holdens of Europe. They also have a much larger market, which means they can afford to make a much better car in quality/$ terms.

I will be in the market for a new car next year. I won't be in the market for a c63 either. I've been impressed with reports of the Hyundai Genesis, and I will certainly look at one when they arrive.

Another major contender will also be the VF commodore though, despite the fact that I don't much like the exterior looks. It does look like a much improved car, particularly in the interior treatment and many extra features, and I am a Holden man if all other things are equal. I like to buy Australian too, and the lower/mid range models look like they could be pretty good value for money.

I just personally don't see the sense in paying 3 times the price for the HSV.

The bottom line though, which kind of makes this whole argument pointless, is that if you are a cashed up die hard Holden man, the HSV is the car for you. If you like the perceived class and quality of the Euros, then that is what you will buy. Once you start spending a hundred grand on a car, the price, resale value, economy, reliability etc become less important. You aren't buying it for those reasons, you are buying it because that is what you want, and you can afford to have it. As per previous couple of comments, you have to be in that target market before you can consider either.

Everyone has different tastes and desires.