HSV Confirms Release of "Gen-F"

[HamaTime™]

That's for a c63 AMG sedan of course. A little over double the price of the base model?
The HSV going to be triple the price of the base model... and out of curiosity, I wonder if that 95k price is a drive away price, or will you still need to add that extra 30k+ that the price of the Merc above does? I admit to not knowing.. I guess nobody will really know until they buy and register one.

Based on current E3 offerings, which Reap will attest to, I believe drive away price on a GTS is about $83,000. The VF HSV's may be a tad more/less, not sure.

And despite the 65 grand you tacked on top of the real price, the c63 is certainly more expensive.

I apologise for my inaccuracy, I was more thinking along the lines of E class prices when giving those figures. But the point was made and you understood, so all good.

The c63 is still more expensive yes. It has less power yes. It is also better built with better materials and will remain trouble free for many years. When you go to sell it, you will find depreciation tiny compared to the HSV though. A five year old Australian built car is worth about one quarter of its purchase price, a Merc is worth about half. You can probably add a premium to both of the cars resale value given their relative exclusivity. Shall we say 10 grand?
Yes, the Mercs are the Holdens of Europe. They also have a much larger market, which means they can afford to make a much better car in quality/$ terms.

Larger market and euro engineering usually equals better quality, correct. However, they will not remain trouble free for years. Euro cars are not devoid of their problems, they have their fair share just like Holden's/HSV's and Ford's alike. I have mates who are senior mechanics at Mercedes and Audi dealerships who regularly work on brand new AMG's and A/S class Audi's who come back with technology glitches/problems/hiccups and more recently spun bearings and thrown rods. These are new cars, could happen just as easily on a Euro as it does on a Ford/Holden.

Based on the price you are paying, the depreciation is probably quite closely correlated. Yes you will get more for an AMG in 5 years than you would for an HSV, but you also paid more, thus it is relative and probably have a linear relationship.

I will be in the market for a new car next year. I won't be in the market for a c63 either. I've been impressed with reports of the Hyundai Genesis, and I will certainly look at one when they arrive.

Well if that is the car you wish to drive, hope you enjoy it. No comparison to the cars we are discussing however, as it is a completely different breed/purpose.

Another major contender will also be the VF commodore though, despite the fact that I don't much like the exterior looks. It does look like a much improved car, particularly in the interior treatment and many extra features, and I am a Holden man if all other things are equal. I like to buy Australian too, and the lower/mid range models look like they could be pretty good value for money.

Based on artists impressions, the exterior styling does not enamour me. The E3 HSV's were very appealing to my eye however (not so much the rear lower bar/skirt however).

The bottom line though, which kind of makes this whole argument pointless, is that if you are a cashed up die hard Holden man, the HSV is the car for you. If you like the perceived class and quality of the Euros, then that is what you will buy. Once you start spending a hundred grand on a car, the price, resale value, economy, reliability etc become less important. You aren't buying it for those reasons, you are buying it because that is what you want, and you can afford to have it. As per previous couple of comments, you have to be in that target market before you can consider either.

Everyone has different tastes and desires

This is the point. When buying one of these cars, traditional comparisons do not really come in to play. You buy one because you are especially looking at that type of car. Whilst price does play a contributing factor to the decision, performance, driveability, styling would take first precedence and would obviously be the major cause of the attraction.

 

[Reaper]

Reap

We all know that the cost of Euro cars in Australia, particularly the larger and more up-market models, are unfairly inflated in price by Australian taxes. I don't know what they cost in their home countries, but we know that in the US, they are far cheaper than here, so they are probably comparable to US prices, converted to Euros, in Europe - i.e. much cheaper than Aus. Despite that, their interiors leave ours for dead. You picked it yourself - the VE console and centre dash is the worst feature of the interior and it cheapens the interior badly.

It's not only Australian taxes, the companies themselves make more, plus the advertising makes the cost of buying it look way worse in Australia. In Aus, GST, import duty is always included in the advertised price, as is LCT, stamp duty and other onroads mostly included these days (legislation changed a few years back on this). In NA and much of Europe GST/Vat/Sales tax/Whatever it's called there is often omitted not to mention many state sales taxes and duties which every buyer has to pay yet doesn't get advertised.

C 63 AMG
Manufacturer's List Price including GST $132,800.00
Recommended maximum dealer delivery including GST $3,269.23
Luxury Car Tax (LCT) $23,080.87
QLD Registration $694.40
QLD CTP2 $328.80
QLD Stamp Duty $6,368.00

Drive Away Price $166,541.30

That's for a c63 AMG sedan of course. A little over double the price of the base model?

I think he should have quoted the E63 which is a direct competitor to a VE/F Commodore. The C class is a far far smaller car. May have been a typo - nfi. Would love to drive a E or C 63 AMG but alas I don't think it's on the cards any time soon :s.

 

[DAKSTER]

I think he should have quoted the E63 which is a direct competitor to a VE/F Commodore. The C class is a far far smaller car. May have been a typo - nfi. Would love to drive a E or C 63 AMG but alas I don't think it's on the cards any time soon :s.

I have driven a C series, although not the V8 or an AMG, and it was a very nice car indeed. Unfortunately I never got to drive one 'in anger' (it wasn't my car of course) and since I will never be in that market unless Clive or Gina dies and mentions me in their will, I guess I never will either :s

The E series will always be tainted for me having owned an E180 which was a totally crap car. Cant compare them with the new versions of course, but there is the heart speaking again.

The C series is not exactly a small car either. I believe the c63 and the HSV would be in similar markets personally, given the massive performance of that awesome engine (yes, only read about it and watched Clarkson rabbit on about it, but it sure seems to be the ants pants.. and damn it sounds good) and if the car is slightly smaller then it negates the power advantage of the HSV surely? Only talking about 100hp difference, and if the HSV is so much bigger thats going to equalise them somewhat.

I think once you start spending 100 grand on a car, you are buying with your heart more than your head, so of course in the end, personal taste is the deciding factor. I personally couldn't justify spending 100 grand on a Commodore that's all, and if I were in that kind of market I think I could find many other cars which would float my boat a hell of a lot better.

I guess my dream car would be a V8 AMG or maybe an M5, but of course even a HSV just isn't in my range so its all just dreams in the end, and that would apply for most of us. In 5 years however, when the HSV has depreciated to an affordable level, the whole game would potentially change for me.

I see you can get a 5 year old HSV GTS with 20K on the clock for well under 40 grand now, that would be worth considering.. although it wouldn't have the latest technology of course. I do like the VE though, so I could consider that. On the other hand, even a base VF would come pretty close to (or even better than) it technically speaking, and that would be brand new and cheaper.

Not as fast of course, but hey if its comfort you want, even a base VF would appear to offer the goods from all current reports, the performance of any new 6 is still pretty special, and even base V8's are scarily quick.

Completely off topic, the one car I wouldn't ever even look at, even though it would definitely be affordable... is a 4 cylinder Falcon..

 

[Reaper]

I see you can get a 5 year old HSV GTS with 20K on the clock for well under 40 grand now, that would be worth considering.. although it wouldn't have the latest technology of course. I do like the VE though, so I could consider that. On the other hand, even a base VF would come pretty close to (or even better than) it technically speaking, and that would be brand new and cheaper.

E(anything) series HSV's of any age, even new are stupidly cheap at the moment. After the runout stock is all gone expect prices to go up somewhat before drifting down like every other car does.

Not as fast of course, but hey if its comfort you want, even a base VF would appear to offer the goods from all current reports, the performance of any new 6 is still pretty special, and even base V8's are scarily quick.

Completely off topic, the one car I wouldn't even even look at, even though it would definitely be affordable... is a 4 cylinder Falcon..

Ford just completely missed the mark with that stupid thing. Although it's a 4cyl it doesn't meet much of govco's "green" feet requirements (although the 6 cyl does) so that rules out government sales, yet is priced at a premium over their 6 cyl which just won't compute with most of the rest of the world. Last I heard they had sold less than 1000 of them in total! From what I hear they don't go too bad, no rocket by any stretch but still not the slug old 4cyl Commodores were either.

 

[HamaTime™]

Apologies, as stated before, I was meaning an E-Class.

I think once you start spending 100 grand on a car, you are buying with your heart more than your head, so of course in the end, personal taste is the deciding factor. I personally couldn't justify spending 100 grand on a Commodore that's all, and if I were in that kind of market I think I could find many other cars which would float my boat a hell of a lot better.

The thing is though, the HSV/FPV offerings are the only brand new options available in that price range for that type of car, i.e. large GT style performance car.

The reason why I emphasise this, is that you are correct in a sense, you are buying with your heart. You buy one because that is the type of car you want to buy. From the sounds of your explanations/opinions, if you were spending $100k on a car, you would be looking for best value for $ rather than aiming for a specific 'type' of car, i.e. large GT style performance car.

 

[davey g-force]

I personally couldn't justify spending 100 grand on a Commodore that's all, and if I were in that kind of market I think I could find many other cars which would float my boat a hell of a lot better.

I guess my dream car would be a V8 AMG or maybe an M5,

What new V8 AMG or M5 could you buy for $100K? ($95K actually)

 

[DAKSTER]

E(anything) series HSV's of any age, even new are stupidly cheap at the moment. After the runout stock is all gone expect prices to go up somewhat before drifting down like every other car does.

Not as fast of course, but hey if its comfort you want, even a base VF would appear to offer the goods from all current reports, the performance of any new 6 is still pretty special, and even base V8's are scarily quick.



Ford just completely missed the mark with that stupid thing. Although it's a 4cyl it doesn't meet much of govco's "green" feet requirements (although the 6 cyl does) so that rules out government sales, yet is priced at a premium over their 6 cyl which just won't compute with most of the rest of the world. Last I heard they had sold less than 1000 of them in total! From what I hear they don't go too bad, no rocket by any stretch but still not the slug old 4cyl Commodores were either.

Wow I wasn't aware of a price premium. That makes it even less desirable. No wonder they aren't selling !! Do they have any advantages at all? I would guess that a 4 cylinder in a falcon would probably even be less economical than a 6, given that its probably going to have to work a lot harder.

 

[Reaper]

Wow I wasn't aware of a price premium. That makes it even less desirable. No wonder they aren't selling !! Do they have any advantages at all? I would guess that a 4 cylinder in a falcon would probably even be less economical than a 6, given that its probably going to have to work a lot harder.

The list is exactly $100 more but in real world what cars are selling for you can easily get a 6 cyl far cheaper. The ecoboost is marginally more frugal in fuel to the 6 cyl

 

[DAKSTER]

What new V8 AMG or M5 could you buy for $100K? ($95K actually)

None of course. But if you are blowing 100K on a set of wheels, you probably aren't that concerned about the price anyway. You aren't basing such a purchase on price, you are buying it because you like it. In the long term, despite the extra cost of the car itself, there probably isn't a lot of difference anyway when you factor in quality, economy, depreciation etc.

 

[DAKSTER]

Apologies, as stated before, I was meaning an E-Class.



The thing is though, the HSV/FPV offerings are the only brand new options available in that price range for that type of car, i.e. large GT style performance car.

The reason why I emphasise this, is that you are correct in a sense, you are buying with your heart. You buy one because that is the type of car you want to buy. From the sounds of your explanations/opinions, if you were spending $100k on a car, you would be looking for best value for $ rather than aiming for a specific 'type' of car, i.e. large GT style performance car.

Yes, you would be right there. TBH, I doubt even if Gina or Clive got generous I would ever spend even 100 grand on a car. A nice Calais would probably be fine for me, the change could earn me money. Dream cars are for dreams. It's always nice to dream though

The 2 main cars on my list for next year at the moment are a Hyundai Genesis (large RWD 5L V8) or maybe a mid range VF. That list will change between now and then too though I am sure. Then when I have the list narrowed down, I will go shopping and probably fall in love with something that wasn't even on the list and buy that instead .