Timing Chains + Rebuild or LFX Swap?

[LachieKb]

I’ve been having issues with my MY2010 SV6 ute, and I now have a couple options to finally fix it, but both will be pricey and I’m not sure which I’m better off doing. TL/DR at bottom.

The first issue is that the 2 centre cylinders are down on compression (both 100psi while the other 4 are roughly 150psi iirc) and they are burning oil. We’ve discovered this issue stemmed from using a cheap air filter which didn’t seal well allowing a fair bit of dust to get into the intake. This issue was only discovered when the car damn near ran out of oil just before the 225,000k service (my bad for not checking often enough), which caused the timing chain tensioners to lose oil pressure when coming off throttle, making the chains slack and make noise.

Soon after this the second (and more annoying) issue arose. The engine would suddenly lose about 50% of its power (mostly above 2k revs), making highway driving very difficult as it barely has the power to get up a slight hill without dropping 2 gears. However the engine still starts easily and runs smooth, just like normal, you only notice a change when you put your foot down and it barely moves. Also, the power comes and goes, seemingly randomly. After driving with no power for a while it will sometimes completely come back like normal while waiting at the lights or after restarting the car, and it will remain for maybe 10 minutes (or rarely, much longer) before disappearing in the same fashion. It’s completely random and I have not found anything that causes the power to come or go.

This behaviour and a throttle position fault code made us think it was a faulty throttle position sensor, but replacing the throttle body made no difference (although that code did not reappear). There were two other codes though, P0420 (Catalyst system efficiency below threshold bank 1) and P0008 (Engine position system performance bank 1). The second suggests the timing chains are stretched and/or have skipped a tooth, throwing out the timing. We now think this could be causing the power loss issue (although still not sure why the power comes back). We aren’t sure about the other code, but guessing its a result of the poor engine performance.

So now I see I have two options:
1: buy a timing chain kit for about $600 and install myself, and just keep topping up the oil until I can afford to rebuild the engine later, or
2: swap my busted LLT engine for a newer LFX engine because LFXs are cheaper, easier to find and better than LLTs.

My main concern is cost of parts. I have the means to install it all myself, but I have very limited funds right now. I know doing the LFX conversion will be difficult and will involve swapping the loom and ECU and reprogramming BCM, but it would probably be the better and cheaper option in the long run considering the cost of rebuilding and maintaining an ageing LLT. I’ve seen guys on the forum claim they’ve picked up LFX engines for $500-$1000 a couple years ago, but unfortunately doing a quick look online now I can’t find any under $2200. If I can find an LFX with under 150000 ks for under $1500 I’d probably do that over rebuilding my LLT, but is that wishful thinking?

TL/DR: my LLT has 230,000ks and needs a rebuild and timing chains replaced. I have limited funds. Should I spend more rebuilding it or bite the bullet and LFX swap it for better reliability in the long run?

 

[HarryHoudini]

Find a replacement motor,plenty low K's units around,doesn't take much to write off a modern car,hail,floods as well as smashes.

 

[DavesSV6Tonner]

Perhaps P0008 may be a faulty camshaft actuator or position sensor? Which may account for the power issue being intermittent.

As advised in the post above, just look for a good second hand engine if the bottom end also has issues.

 

[LachieKb]

Perhaps P0008 may be a faulty camshaft actuator or position sensor? Which may account for the power issue being intermittent.

As advised in the post above, just look for a good second hand engine if the bottom end also has issues.

Yeah we considered this as well although haven’t checked sensors yet. But that’s just it, could go down the route of replacing chains and rebuilding for it to not even fix the issue.
A newer LFX engine is a safer bet, but I’m not sure I’ll find one I can afford any time soon. Is it best to keep looking on gumtree and eBay? Are they usually cheaper at local wreckers? Does anyone here have one they’d be willing to sell for around $1000?

 

[J_D 2.0]

Yeah we considered this as well although haven’t checked sensors yet. But that’s just it, could go down the route of replacing chains and rebuilding for it to not even fix the issue.
A newer LFX engine is a safer bet, but I’m not sure I’ll find one I can afford any time soon. Is it best to keep looking on gumtree and eBay? Are they usually cheaper at local wreckers? Does anyone here have one they’d be willing to sell for around $1000?

A brand new LFX will set you back 5 grand. Unless your putting in a brand new engine it’s probably not worth the effort to change it over to an LFX.

https://www.holmart.com.au/holden-lfx-v6-3.6l-engine-ve-vf-motor-crate-long-e

 

[Fu Manchu]

Check the actuators (clean them) and the sensors (clean them).

This takes 30mins to do all of them and costs nothing but some carby/throttle body cleaner and paper towel.

Sit on this engine swap thing for a bit and do some basics first.

Also run a diesel oil for a few short changes. Get it cleaned out inside. A few of the crew on here use it from time to time.

 

[LachieKb]

A brand new LFX will set you back 5 grand. Unless your putting in a brand new engine it’s probably not worth the effort to change it over to an LFX.

https://www.holmart.com.au/holden-lfx-v6-3.6l-engine-ve-vf-motor-crate-long-e

My dilemma stems from not having the money for a full rebuild, let alone a brand new crate engine. We have the means to do the swap ourselves so it’ll just cost a weekend really, that’s still worth the effort in my eyes if I can find one with around 100,000km for a decent price.

Check the actuators (clean them) and the sensors (clean them).

This takes 30mins to do all of them and costs nothing but some carby/throttle body cleaner and paper towel.

Sit on this engine swap thing for a bit and do some basics first.

Also run a diesel oil for a few short changes. Get it cleaned out inside. A few of the crew on here use it from time to time.

Haven’t ever heard of running diesel oil to clean it out. Just run the same weight as usual? Any particular brand or type? Is there any adverse affects of doing this? Cheers

 

[Fu Manchu]

My dilemma stems from not having the money for a full rebuild, let alone a brand new crate engine. We have the means to do the swap ourselves so it’ll just cost a weekend really, that’s still worth the effort in my eyes if I can find one with around 100,000km for a decent price.


Haven’t ever heard of running diesel oil to clean it out. Just run the same weight as usual? Any particular brand or type? Is there any adverse affects of doing this? Cheers

Yes. Same. 5W-30 or 40.
Don’t go nuts on it. Just cruise. Do a change after 2500-5000ks.

Pretty sure some just use it all the time. Not sure on the story there though.

Has higher amount of detergents. A bit like Royal Purple as was the rage to use a few years back.

Penrite do an affordable one.

Just bare in mind that a heap of gunk will be working free and frequent checks on the oil colour should be done to get an idea of when to drop it and change the filter.

A few changes like that and the motor should be in much better condition.

 

[Shen Long]

I’ve been having issues with my MY2010 SV6 ute, and I now have a couple options to finally fix it, but both will be pricey and I’m not sure which I’m better off doing. TL/DR at bottom.

The first issue is that the 2 centre cylinders are down on compression (both 100psi while the other 4 are roughly 150psi iirc) and they are burning oil. We’ve discovered this issue stemmed from using a cheap air filter which didn’t seal well allowing a fair bit of dust to get into the intake. This issue was only discovered when the car damn near ran out of oil just before the 225,000k service (my bad for not checking often enough), which caused the timing chain tensioners to lose oil pressure when coming off throttle, making the chains slack and make noise.

Soon after this the second (and more annoying) issue arose. The engine would suddenly lose about 50% of its power (mostly above 2k revs), making highway driving very difficult as it barely has the power to get up a slight hill without dropping 2 gears. However the engine still starts easily and runs smooth, just like normal, you only notice a change when you put your foot down and it barely moves. Also, the power comes and goes, seemingly randomly. After driving with no power for a while it will sometimes completely come back like normal while waiting at the lights or after restarting the car, and it will remain for maybe 10 minutes (or rarely, much longer) before disappearing in the same fashion. It’s completely random and I have not found anything that causes the power to come or go.

This behaviour and a throttle position fault code made us think it was a faulty throttle position sensor, but replacing the throttle body made no difference (although that code did not reappear). There were two other codes though, P0420 (Catalyst system efficiency below threshold bank 1) and P0008 (Engine position system performance bank 1). The second suggests the timing chains are stretched and/or have skipped a tooth, throwing out the timing. We now think this could be causing the power loss issue (although still not sure why the power comes back). We aren’t sure about the other code, but guessing its a result of the poor engine performance.

So now I see I have two options:
1: buy a timing chain kit for about $600 and install myself, and just keep topping up the oil until I can afford to rebuild the engine later, or
2: swap my busted LLT engine for a newer LFX engine because LFXs are cheaper, easier to find and better than LLTs.

My main concern is cost of parts. I have the means to install it all myself, but I have very limited funds right now. I know doing the LFX conversion will be difficult and will involve swapping the loom and ECU and reprogramming BCM, but it would probably be the better and cheaper option in the long run considering the cost of rebuilding and maintaining an ageing LLT. I’ve seen guys on the forum claim they’ve picked up LFX engines for $500-$1000 a couple years ago, but unfortunately doing a quick look online now I can’t find any under $2200. If I can find an LFX with under 150000 ks for under $1500 I’d probably do that over rebuilding my LLT, but is that wishful thinking?

TL/DR: my LLT has 230,000ks and needs a rebuild and timing chains replaced. I have limited funds. Should I spend more rebuilding it or bite the bullet and LFX swap it for better reliability in the long run?

Mate are your compression values low because of an open valve in the mentioned cylinders?

If so, then replacing the timing chain will resolve the compression issues as it will seal the cylinders completely to get a correct compression reading.

Clean up or replace or modify your PCV's (1 on each rocker cover) & this will also allow for better breathing which "should" reduce oil consumption.

VE V6 engines do "unnaturally" burn engine oil depending on how you drive your car etc, but its quite a standard thing for most V6 owners.

Doing an engine swap maybe a little extreme at this stage IMHO - get the chains sorted, clean up the inside of the inlet manifold (while its off the engine), give the engine a 5 - 10 minute bath with some cheap thick oil & a 70% to 30% diesel fuel mixture (70% cheap oil - 30% diesel run the engine for 5 - 10 minutes so it can clean up all the sludge if there is any). Drain all the oil/diesel then work on the timing chains & get everything else out of the way since everything will be off the car (i.e. install a new oil pump as well while the front covers are off)

Then you may as well clean up the water filler neck along with new rubbers/seals, the water pump should be replaced etc

Something like $1K - 1.5K (approx) & your own sweat, cursing & tears should get the V6 back into good working condition

 

[DavesSV6Tonner]

Mate are your compression values low because of an open valve in the mentioned cylinders?

If so, then replacing the timing chain will resolve the compression issues as it will seal the cylinders completely to get a correct compression reading.

Clean up or replace or modify your PCV's (1 on each rocker cover) & this will also allow for better breathing which "should" reduce oil consumption.

VE V6 engines do "unnaturally" burn engine oil depending on how you drive your car etc, but its quite a standard thing for most V6 owners.

Doing an engine swap maybe a little extreme at this stage IMHO - get the chains sorted, clean up the inside of the inlet manifold (while its off the engine), give the engine a 5 - 10 minute bath with some cheap thick oil & a 70% to 30% diesel fuel mixture (70% cheap oil - 30% diesel run the engine for 5 - 10 minutes so it can clean up all the sludge if there is any). Drain all the oil/diesel then work on the timing chains & get everything else out of the way since everything will be off the car (i.e. install a new oil pump as well while the front covers are off)

Then you may as well clean up the water filler neck along with new rubbers/seals, the water pump should be replaced etc

Something like $1K - 1.5K (approx) & your own sweat, cursing & tears should get the V6 back into good working condition

If timings chains being out causing the camshafts to hold valves open in the two middle cylinders with low compression then it would be the same for all cylinders.