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Truth about the MAFless tune.

NU13

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People i've been seriously considering getting a MAFless tune for my VY2 SS. However after reading up on the MAFless tune on Wiki i have my doubts about the worth whileness getting a MAFless tune. If the Wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAFless_Tuning is to be believed then it's mostly a waste of money.
Whats the opinions of people that have had the MAFless tune done, or opinions of guys that tune the LS1 for a living?
 

axemurderer101

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i dont get how it is a waste of money, pretty sure it cost about the same for a maf tune and a mafless tune. only real difference would be the price of the intake.
you would be better off talking to someone who would be doing the tuning on your car if you go ahead with it.
 

Reaper

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Ok..... The maf is actually a good bit of gear. If it were my car I'd stick with the maf unless it has a cam or something that will screw with the intake pressures. FWIW I have 300RWKW with a ton of torque with a cam, OTR and MAF in tact.
 

WAGONBEAST57

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Well, im not sure I would trust a Wikipedia article on mafless tunes, but as above I have a Maf tune and very happy - for the few kilowatts difference ill take the stock looking maf set up anyday, just for legality purposes.
 

axemurderer101

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Ok..... The maf is actually a good bit of gear. If it were my car I'd stick with the maf unless it has a cam or something that will screw with the intake pressures. FWIW I have 300RWKW with a ton of torque with a cam, OTR and MAF in tact.
you forgot to mention you got 300rwkw from an ls3 though lol
either way you go you will get better performance and fuel economy
 

Drizt

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I thought the general consensus was...

Pre VE get MAFless.
VE or above keep the MAF unless go for massive HP.
 

WazzaVN

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Ok..... The maf is actually a good bit of gear. If it were my car I'd stick with the maf unless it has a cam or something that will screw with the intake pressures. FWIW I have 300RWKW with a ton of torque with a cam, OTR and MAF in tact.
I've spoken to 2 tuners about getting my ss tuned. They said the same thing. Keep the maf unless you need to get rid of it. They said a maf will adjust things based on the weather. Humidity and air temp. Where as a mafless tune is just the engine tuned for maximum gain on the day it was tune.
 

Mungus

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I've spoken to 2 tuners about getting my ss tuned. They said the same thing. Keep the maf unless you need to get rid of it. They said a maf will adjust things based on the weather. Humidity and air temp. Where as a mafless tune is just the engine tuned for maximum gain on the day it was tune.
A MAF doesn't measure humidity. My understanding is if you go MAFless the ECU simply uses the MAP in conjunction with IAT sensor to perform the same function, but with no restriction from the MAF honeycomb. Also depends on what model. It may be the case that a MAFless tune on a pre VE is best case scenario on the day of tune? VE, different scenario altogether. See below.

I thought the general consensus was...

Pre VE get MAFless.
VE or above keep the MAF unless go for massive HP.
Drizt, from what I have researched, VT-VY only use on spark table, whereas VE uses upper and lower spark tables and the upper (I think) is the table that learns and adapts to conditions. So maybe with the pre VE it is better to have MAF?

Any tuners out there, please correct me if I'm wrong. I have only read about this stuff!
 

07GTS

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like said above pre ve the maf is a smaller diameter so most people got a mafless tune to remove the restriction, the ve maf is bigger and not much of a restriction unless u go cam or blower then mafless is recommended, with the mafless tune the engine is set to the airflow in and out but still changes to suit intake temps etc. it just wont respond to further airflow changes with out a touch up tune... i also think its one of those personal choices either way there have been great and similar results, because of the different parts of the ecu to unlock and more work involved within the tune the mafless tune can cost a little more but weather the tuner charges differently is up to them...
 

PIR4TE

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Mate I've had no tune, MAF tune, MAF and SD tune, and MAFless... what I've found is it depends on the engine variant, mods, tuner and software as to which is best.
I have an L77, you an LS1, so on the face of it we both have Holden V8s but criteria to inform the best tuning approach is completely different between GenIII LS1 and the latest GenIV L77 engines, specifically due to revisions in ECU speed/capability, MAF resolution, and VE as a result of different ci, heads, cam, intake and exhaust.
On both our engines GM employs two different systems to derive fuel calculations. MAFless (correctly referred to as the Speed Density method) and MAF. SD assumes airflow based on variables like engine RPM, MAP KPA, intake temp, engine volumetric efficiency (VE) values and what not, while the MAF use a sensor that directly measures the amount of air inducted into the engine.
They both have pros and cons, they both have applications when one would be better than other. They both get tuned independently from each other in the GM approach, and combined together at the end to improve part throttle driveability/mpg, etc.
Different manufacturers have their own implementations as well, Ford uses MAF only in all their cars, Chrysler uses SD only. GM had to be wiser as always and they decided to combine both models together.
SD is preferred by most tuners when tuning high performance engines with large camshafts or forced induction. The MAF is removed (or disabled) and the PCM is tuned using the MAP sensor instead. Unfortunately, when the MAF is disconnected the stock PCM has been designed to go into a semi-limp mode (operating from the low octane spark map only).
So that's whereby switching to a completely different, custom PCM operating system from either HPT or EFI will give more flexibility to address specific tuning requirements that, until now, have not been possible.
The new OS restores the high-octane spark map and full adaptive spark control, when operating in SD mode.
On an LS1 this allows the advantage of the latest proven techniques by using software to circumvent the limitations of the LS1's older MAF and slower PCM. In stock form your ECU has trouble implementing fueling transitions as per MAF calcs due to its slower speed, SD uses VE lookups to derive fuel calculations at part throttle conditions. Further tuning the VE will improve driveability, especially on cammed cars, improve l/100k, etc, and would be better suited for FI applications down the track when the stock MAF tune would reach its limit by airflow or frequency.
You can revert to the legacy OS and old MAF tune at any time... oh and don't chuck the MAF away.
 
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