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AFM L76 lifter rattle when cold WTF?

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by OldDog, Jun 15, 2010.

  1. Mitch-VE6LTR

    Mitch-VE6LTR New Member

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    I wouldn't touch an AFM V8 let alone an auto SS for a start. Also it's a pushrod engine they have hydraulic lifters they always make noise from my experience where as solid lifters (commonly found on DOHC and OHC engines) make no such "tack, clack, nock or rattle" I haven't listened to the sound files but EVERY engine since the gen 3 makes noises that's what you get with a pushrod alloy engine. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the engine but my friend who works for Holden and has done for 9 years now told me they ALWAYS have people coming in complaining about normal noises all the time... Holden says they cant hear the VERY FAINT nock I have when cold and only when you put engine under some load. Eg; let clutch engage friction point. EVERY 6 liter I have listened to makes this noise and some people don't pick it up untill you record it and play it to them. Which I'll be doing very soon to demonstrate the noise with a few YouTube Links to demonstrate other cars doing the same thing.
     
  2. Mitch-VE6LTR

    Mitch-VE6LTR New Member

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    By the way it's the exact same reason they didn't replace gen 3's well it wasn't an official recall. Because it would send Holden BROKE!! Imagine the cost involved in replacing engines? Holden and GM aren't exactly rolling in cash at the moment.
     
  3. OldDog

    OldDog Donating Member

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    Well then Mitch, if you can't even take the time to listen to the vids, you are a clown, and a rude one at that.
     
  4. Mitch-VE6LTR

    Mitch-VE6LTR New Member

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    I cannot listen because every time I try it doesn't work. I dont have acess to a PC only my phone. Delete the stupid AFM and put normal lifters in it. Why have cylinders pumping up and down and not creating power. I honestly don't see the point. However some people do and that's fair enough each to there own. I'm not a clown And I'm not rude I'm expressing my opinion just like everyone else. I will do my best to check the sounds out. Also I want you to listen to the sound mine makes once I upload it. Its an E85 manual V8. In the mean time go to YouTube and type in orssom1 check out there installation video skip to the end where they start the car listen to the knock.
     
  5. bladerunner

    bladerunner "needs a bit'a nitrous"

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    I'm not taking sides here. mine rattles a bit, Im not concerned. Mitch according to your ride you drive a ser2 ss. your engine is the L77 which is an AFM engine. Ser2"s have a one size fits all engine.manuals it's switched off. Autos switched on etc..
     
  6. HEXEM

    HEXEM Member

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    As OldDog has said you realy need to listen to the videos before continuing with your statements on this issue. The engine issues I had started with and L98 which doesn't have AFM lifters. Holden spend a lot more money in service time, parts etc to measure and rebuild an engine for me the first time only for it to fail within a few months. They decided to install a new L98 long motor (or 3/4 service engine) which lasted 8,000klm before coming to the same fate.

    The noise was so obviouse with my car that it could be heard across the workshop with the Holden Rep standing near the car. Their comment was yes that is bad and should not be making that sound. They spoke with the Holden engineers who got the to try and isolate the issue by doing some tests but the noise kept going. The engineers said don't continue just replace the engine.

    Since the L77 has been in there is not cold startup knocking at all. This is not to say that it won't down the track but from research myself and others have done, L77 engine built after Jan/Feb 2011 (and I don't mean the cars build date either) there is greater success in this noise not being present due to the change in internal parts from the States.

    Check your engine build date which is located on the inside edge of the passenger rocker cover inline with the first coil pack.
     
  7. Mitch-VE6LTR

    Mitch-VE6LTR New Member

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    I'll check that out thanks mate, mines a march 2011 build well the car is.. As I said the nock isn't bad it's quite faint and goes away with in about say litrally a minute or two. So it doesn't really bother me Holden is doing an oil consumption test just to be sure but it's not using any oil so I don't care as long as it doesn't sound like "old slapper" my VT 5.7 which was f**ked rattled its ass off!
     
  8. SSVAGON

    SSVAGON New Member

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    After my experience with this problem. I have been told by a professional engine builder these engines do have "degree" of cold start engine noise that is normal. This noise is due to the alloy blocks are noisy due to the acoustic qualities of aluminium.

    HOWEVER, I was also told.

    This cold start knock should only last a few seconds and/or should not that noticeable, NOT sit there clacking like an old CAT diesel engine for some time.

    I understand "some" (not all) of the engine blocks have bores that are out of round or have a taper. This causes the piston to rock/slap when cold due to excessive clearance between the bore and piston. If the bore is badly out of round the worse the noise is.

    The more the piston rocks over time, the piston also develops a taper and the noise gets worse and worse.

    I understand there has been an updated AFM lifters and pistons fitted to the newer L77 (Jan/Feb 2011) to reduce the piston rock sound and lifter clack. This is why I suspect this forum is not full of this problem with the series 2 L77.

    Our Series II built in Nov 2010 has the older version of the L77 (July 2010 engine) as it came from the factory with the old style L76 AFM lifters. Our lifters were replaced and did not fix the problem. Further to this I think pulling the heads off to fix problems like noisy lifters does not help the bores from going out of round. These alloy block’s need to be under tension or torque to make the bores round. So much so they have a toque plate fitted if they are to be bored or honed. The only way to fix this problem correctly is to bore the block “under tension” to make the bores round and replace the pistons with larger after market pistons. Holden however will not warrant an aftermarket part.


    Our car goes in next week to have it assessed again after the engine was removed, stripped down the pistons replaced and coated with something like Teflon. This lasted about 1000ks with no noise, now the noise is back.:ranting:

    I suspect this is due to the bores being badly out of round and has taken the coating off the pistons already. The only solution to my “excessive” engine noise would be to completely replace the engine with a new 2011 built L77.
     
  9. Mitch-VE6LTR

    Mitch-VE6LTR New Member

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    ^^^^ what he said! Mine is exactly that goes away litrally after a minute or so and the sound is very minimal.
     
  10. Mitch-VE6LTR

    Mitch-VE6LTR New Member

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    Just another thing I wonder why we never hear of this problem with the alloytecs?
     
  11. bluessv

    bluessv New Member

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    Don't hear many with HSV LS3's complaining either
     
  12. bladerunner

    bladerunner "needs a bit'a nitrous"

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    ive heard of a few that have had premature cam lobe wear also they use the LS7 lifter which isnt the best lifter around
     
  13. bluessv

    bluessv New Member

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    What is it with Holden cams??? My 2008 SSV had cam and lifter issues. All replaced at 58,000kms. My 2010 SS had L76 had lifter issues which they have now apparently rectified with the latest built L77's. When are they going to build a V8 that has no cam and lifter issue!!!!
     
  14. bigjim92

    bigjim92 Active Member

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    It's not just holden that have trouble with lifters and cams.

    My SSV L76 seems to have a slight rattle on dead cold start, but doesn't seem to last very long at all, I'm not really going to worry about it as I'll be getting a cam put in eventually.
     
  15. XANDER

    XANDER New Member

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    Hey Hex you still have that vid?? i want to hear it to see if its the same as mine.
     
  16. swingn_wasabi

    swingn_wasabi New Member

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    I had a lifter go bye bye in my AFM ute, but there was no rattling or an sign of failure... One day turned on the car, drove about 60m & a check engine warning came up on the dash... Was towed to Holden the next day & was fixed within another day.

    Regarding the rattle, sounds like you may have had the same problem as me where a bolt on the exhaust (Think it was the one connecting to the cat) was over tightened - This more then likely occurred when the exhaust was replaced after an accident... Dealer fixed it up with no dramas & said it seemed to be a common problem.

    The rattling I experienced only happened when the car was cold & did only last for approx 20 seconds. After that, all was good.
     
  17. HEXEM

    HEXEM Member

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    Hey mate,

    Yeah I still have it. It was a lifter preload issue due to them changing out the camshaft to an L98 one.

    Will post it up again when I find it..
     
  18. HEXEM

    HEXEM Member

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    If only it was that simple.... it was basic **** workmanship from people who didn't realy understand what they were doing and the end result it would have. I told them so many times that it will tick.. My rattle was always there hold cold anytime... sounded like a clapped out 1976 holden 6. Anyway at least it didn't have piston knock on cold start up.
     
  19. 2012thunderV8

    2012thunderV8 New Member

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    yeah, my 2012 Ve ss thunder ute has the same rattle. When i first brought the ute all i heard was the electronic fuel pump. Now even when cold or hot, its starting to sound like a F***ing diesel. Its got just under 7,000kms and ive taken it back to the dealer and they have informed me that due to the engine being made out of alloy that the injectors echo through the motor to give the ticking noise.BULL ****!!!!!
     
  20. Loaded Dice

    Loaded Dice .... Lets roll.

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    mine only gets it when it is started from real cold, ie left outside overnight, even then it only lasts a minute or two.
     

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