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any issues with ve or vf wagons?

Forg

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One of the reasons Holden got themselves into trouble was they were determined to push what they wanted on to the customer instead of listening to what the customer wanted.
I know, I know, and I agree ... to a degree.
But they were also hamstrung on budget, things like not running manuals down the wagon production-line would've had their masters in Detroit giggling with glee.
Same with product availability once the real Commodore stopped production; they just weren't allowed anything that might have actually made the market think of Holden as The Australian-Made Commodore Company (eg. a few overpriced Caddies & decent-priced HSV-converted Camaros might have made people think they weren't done-for & made people actually consider buying an Acadia - I mean I might think SUV's are pus from Satan's anus but the people who are willing to spend money on stuff that's twice the price it should be don't agree with me).
 

panhead

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I know, I know, and I agree ... to a degree.
But they were also hamstrung on budget, things like not running manuals down the wagon production-line would've had their masters in Detroit giggling with glee.
Same with product availability once the real Commodore stopped production; they just weren't allowed anything that might have actually made the market think of Holden as The Australian-Made Commodore Company (eg. a few overpriced Caddies & decent-priced HSV-converted Camaros might have made people think they weren't done-for & made people actually consider buying an Acadia - I mean I might think SUV's are pus from Satan's anus but the people who are willing to spend money on stuff that's twice the price it should be don't agree with me).

The way I look at is the problem was set into motion long before the serious budget restraints that plagued them at the end.

The market changed but Holden didn't.

Outside of not responding to market changes and I'm not advocating a bespoked approach to manufacturing as that is way too costly for a company that relies on a mass produced product but some form of adding a personal touch at an additional cost to the customer wouldn't have hurt and the manual trans in the wagon is the perfect example.

The wagon comes with an auto because that is the popular combo sort by the average consumer but as Holden already have the necessary production capacity to provide a manual you can have one at a much larger additional cost.

Plenty of manufacturers bespoke to varying degrees.

In 1995 I purchased a VS Commodore and I know it's a HSV not a Holden but I ordered it to be delivered dressed as a base model Executive apart from the engine, OTR and tune and the Clubsport body kit, rims and badges were to accompany it in boxes.

There were no if or buts when I requested it at the dealership and a few days later my order was confirmed and I paid an extra $2000 for the privilege.

It wouldn't have caused a ripple to Holden's production line but try requesting that in the last ten years of Holden's local manufacturing and you would have got a firm no.




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Forg

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It wouldn't have caused a ripple to Holden's production line but try requesting that in the last ten years of Holden's local manufacturing and you would have got a firm no.
But that's because they looked at the cost of providing something like that vs the return, and so few people took it up that they decided it was better to reduce every single car's RRP in order to sell more of the everycar.

If you'd been quoted what it really cost them to do what they did for you, including setting up the ordering stuff & the ability for the HSDV production-line to do variations etc, you'd not have taken-up the offer 'cos it'd have been so much more than $2k ... and they'd have spent all that prep money for nothing 'cos nobody'd have taken it up.

You can't get anything like that from any manufacturer these days, it's part of why cars are currently the cheapest they've been since the ... early 70's I think it was?

The market changed but Holden didn't.
They didn't fail to do anything that any other manufacturer managed ... they were just too small to do the required numbers, is all. They had rubbish SUV's like everyone else, they had small cars, they had medum cars, they had dual-cabs. OK towards the end the GM product was awful & what wasn't awful people were scared to buy 'cos nobody else was buying them; but during the noughties & oneties, Holden had products that covered the new-normal of everything selling a little bit rather than the 50's-90's standard of the family sedan/wagon getting the lion's share of new vehicle sales.
 
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panhead

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But that's because they looked at the cost of providing something like that vs the return, and so few people took it up that they decided it was better to reduce every single car's RRP in order to sell more of the everycar.

If you'd been quoted what it really cost them to do what they did for you, including setting up the ordering stuff & the ability for the HSDV production-line to do variations etc, you'd not have taken-up the offer 'cos it'd have been so much more than $2k ... and they'd have spent all that prep money for nothing 'cos nobody'd have taken it up.

You can't get anything like that from any manufacturer these days, it's part of why cars are currently the cheapest they've been since the ... early 70's I think it was?

Part of my employment history includes a manufacturing background and many companies offer variations at a customers request without advertising it and of course the customer pays for those changes and no the company doesn't adsorb the cost, the customer pays all the way.

In the case of vehicle manufacturers there are companies that cater for their customers individual taste and you pay through the nose for it.

I purchased a new Merc not so long ago and I understand it's a completely different price point but I could have bespoked it to death and of course ended up with a bill the size of the national debit. I declined because I was happy with the car the way it was except for the electronic diff but there are customers that do take up the bespoke service. In the case of the electronic diff a mechanical LSD was offered as a accessory and I chose it.

The last BMW I purchased for my wife was bespoked and it added close to $20,000 to the price but it was what she wanted or maybe the truth is more what I felt she wanted. There was a change to the type of leather used, a change to the tune and to the audio which weren't available as an accessories but were offered as part of bespoking during manufacture. Then I had changes made to the materials used in a number of cosmetic parts such as the grille, spoiler and interior trim which were offered as accessories or variations at a cost. You could buy the base finish which most customers do but you weren't locked into it if you wished to make changes.

I'm not saying Holden could afford to do that but pointing out it is available in the industry.

The ability for Holden to provide a manual trans in a wagon that had already been offered and was available in other variants was doable and the cost incurred could easily be transferred to the customer and it's the customers choice as to whether they felt the addition cost was worth the desire to go manual over auto.



They didn't fail to do anything that any other manufacturer managed ... they were just too small to do the required numbers, is all. They had rubbish SUV's like everyone else, they had small cars, they had medum cars, they had dual-cabs. OK towards the end the GM product was awful & what wasn't awful people were scared to buy 'cos nobody else was buying them; but during the noughties & oneties, Holden had products that covered the new-normal of everything selling a little bit rather than the 50's-90's standard of the family sedan/wagon getting the lion's share of new vehicle sales.

My thoughts on Holden missing the boat was the vehicles they were offering in the 2000's were being left behind for the spec you could get for your money compared to the rapidly improving Asian products.

The VE was a good example of a great car design that was let down by it's lack of tech and consumer comforts compared to other vehicles on the market.

When I asked friends and co-workers why they had bought the car they did instead of their usual Holden or Ford, I lost count of how many would say I get a lot more for my money in the Asian car then I get in a Holden.

In fact if the VE hadn't been available with an affordable V8 it would have be left behind much quicker than it eventually was and trying to correct the problem around the time of the release of the VF and VF2 was too late, the customer base had already well and truly bolted.

And these days as far as performance goes some of the current entry level performance AMG's, M & RS cars are a real hoot for the price, they may not be very family orientated but everyone except for me has a SUV of some type parked in their driveways these day for those duties anyway.




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Derekthetree

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It's a sad state of affairs. Even where I'm from in the UK, the manual is a dying breed, especially in sports cars. Lots of people just want fast, no involvement and DSG gearboxes give just that.
EVO did a best manual group test, and tried to list the normally aspirated, manual "sporty" cars you could buy new. I think they counted 6 cars....
 

panhead

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It's a sad state of affairs. Even where I'm from in the UK, the manual is a dying breed, especially in sports cars. Lots of people just want fast, no involvement and DSG gearboxes give just that.
EVO did a best manual group test, and tried to list the normally aspirated, manual "sporty" cars you could buy new. I think they counted 6 cars....

If I'm buying for me to drive and it's available in a manual then a manual it is but I understand I'm a dinosaur and I will also be a little slower than all the auto drivers but it'll always be an on-paper loss as I'll probably never experience a race on the street to confirm it.

When there are no manuals available and the day will come, then I'll have to drive my old cars to feel the engagement a manual offers and feel a little sad for some who'll who never get that experience.

Most people just won't care as for them a vehicle is just a means to get from A to B.




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Forg

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When I asked friends and co-workers why they had bought the car they did instead of their usual Holden or Ford, I lost count of how many would say I get a lot more for my money in the Asian car then I get in a Holden.
But that's largely bull-hockey ... if they were buying a small-medium they could've bought Focus or Cruze/Astra with the same equipment for less/same price ... and if they were buying medium-sized, a Mondeo was available (and a Falcodore wasn't any more exxy than a Japanese mid-size anyway).

They just thought that a Japanese brand would make them look less pleb.
Or ... and IMHO this is realistic in terms of everything Daewoo that Holden sold for decades ... the product Holden were given to sell had a rubbish reliability & driving-dynamics reputation. The same wasn't really true of Fords though, Fords just weren't marketed very well, people didn't realise a Focus was a Mazda3 for less money that drove better ...
 
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