Common model problems...anyone ever pondered if failures were 'planned obselescence' that is the component was designed to fail after warranty ?

[bluehighway]

We see many threads of various engine /electrical component failures which got me thinking about design . It is well known that if everything was built to last nobody would be in a hurry to look at replacing anything with a newer model (VW beetle) . Can we say that older models were designed to last longer? I know that many older models were certainly much easier to work on ...Can we say they design newer models in such a way that the average consumer would find it much more difficult to service than in days gone by? Would it be fair too say that no matter what new car you buy...it is designed to only last a brief period so you will look at buying another car sooner rather than later. What is the life expectancy of a brand new car today compared to the 1970's ? Im thinking its probably the same but todays model requires more servicing from an expert at the dealership... Which brings me to this...Can we say the well known rear main seal plate on the LS1 was a design failure.... was it actually designed to guarantee a visit to the workshop? Im sure there are other components that flop ...but are they designed to flop?...lol....Im thinking they are which means that it is likely that many manufacturers are looking forward to seeing you strolling the yard looking for your next new car as you drive off the yard in your new car....lol

 

[VS 5.0]

Yes

 

[07GTS]

back when there was fewer manufacture choices they had to make a lasting vehicle so people would purchase them, but now days with so many manufactures peoples purchase choices are all over the place, so now servicing makes the money

 

[chrisp]

Older cars were very prone to rusting out. It wasn’t so much the quality of the materials or the workmanship, but rather the design of the body that allowed for the accumulation of mud and water within cavities in the bodywork.

Regarding servicing, most modern cars only need oil changes for their first 150,000 km or so, along with tyres and brakes. Older cars (pre electronic) were much more unreliable and needed regular tuning, points, plugs, carburettor cleaning/adjusting.

I reckon if you could get a new example of an old car, and a new example of the new car, and run then both side up side, i reckon the older design will breakdown first. And it’s not just cars. Look around at the lack of service and repair places for appliances in general. There is hardly any these days as they aren’t viable or economical.

 

[shane_3800]

We see many threads of various engine /electrical component failures which got me thinking about design . It is well known that if everything was built to last nobody would be in a hurry to look at replacing anything with a newer model (VW beetle) . Can we say that older models were designed to last longer? I know that many older models were certainly much easier to work on ...Can we say they design newer models in such a way that the average consumer would find it much more difficult to service than in days gone by? Would it be fair too say that no matter what new car you buy...it is designed to only last a brief period so you will look at buying another car sooner rather than later. What is the life expectancy of a brand new car today compared to the 1970's ? Im thinking its probably the same but todays model requires more servicing from an expert at the dealership... Which brings me to this...Can we say the well known rear main seal plate on the LS1 was a design failure.... was it actually designed to guarantee a visit to the workshop? Im sure there are other components that flop ...but are they designed to flop?...lol....Im thinking they are which means that it is likely that many manufacturers are looking forward to seeing you strolling the yard looking for your next new car as you drive off the yard in your new car....lol

Modern cars are actually more reliable.
Yes they are more complex, so because of this it means more experience and training is required.
Cars are more complex because that is what the market wanted.

As for the LS rear main, it is wayyyy more reliable than a rope seal Holden.

 

[Lex]

Yes.

Ve billion $ to develop? I reckon it was a billion $ to de- develop it. Make it into a near future sh#t heap.

 

[Immortality]

I think newer cars are more reliable initially and manufacturers are required to supply parts for 10 years. After that, good luck especially with modern cars and electronic modules that will be hard to get or replicate.

The sad reality is that electronics don't last forever, especially **** with microprocessors in harsh environments.

As for oil seals? They don't last forever, not in cars or in commercial/industrial equipment. At work we had 3 identical machines, one always had a leaking shaft seal that was replaced a number of times where as the other 2 hardly ever needed looking at. Never did figure out why but they are all probably razor blades or alloy cans by now.

 

[Pollushon]

I don't think it's planned obsolescence as much as making a product to an exact price point, ease of manufacture and part/platform/technology sharing. It's a side effect of 'innovation'

 

[Immortality]

I don't think it's planned obsolescence as much as making a product to an exact price point, ease of manufacture and part/platform/technology sharing. It's a side effect of 'innovation'

Definitely.

At work we had 40yo machines, some that had been overhauled 3 times and still running strong with everything made of metal. The newer machines had a lot of plastics and nylon parts which were no where as durable and we were replacing parts after a couple of years, in particular 1 cam which when worn out caused all sorts of grief. The newer machines were faster but a lot less durable and when talking to the engineers from the machine manufacturer their answer, " it was all made to a price point, we could make it more durable but it would cost more..."

I do however believe that car manufacturers only make cars to last the warranty period. Look at the GM servicing guide, especially for auto transmissions, hardly ideal for a long service life, sure they are "cheaper" to own in the initial years with the extended "recommended" service intervals but long term it's detrimental to the life of the vehicle.

 

[lmoengnr]

Definitely.

At work we had 40yo machines, some that had been overhauled 3 times and still running strong with everything made of metal. The newer machines had a lot of plastics and nylon parts which were no where as durable and we were replacing parts after a couple of years, in particular 1 cam which when worn out caused all sorts of grief. The newer machines were faster but a lot less durable and when talking to the engineers from the machine manufacturer their answer, " it was all made to a price point, we could make it more durable but it would cost more..."

I do however believe that car manufacturers only make cars to last the warranty period. Look at the GM servicing guide, especially for auto transmissions, hardly ideal for a long service life, sure they are "cheaper" to own in the initial years with the extended "recommended" service intervals but long term it's detrimental to the life of the vehicle.

It's always the engineers who cop the blame for design deficiencies, but it's usually the accountants 'cutting costs' in the final stages...